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D&D 5E Exhaustion for old 1e undead level drain

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
1e Spectres and Wraiths MM entries do not even mention being incorporeal.
Interesting, in that for some reason we've had them as incorporeal since day one.
Spectres are very powerful undead humans whose primary existence is on the negative material plane. Spectres haunt the most desolate of places, tombs, and dungeons. They hate sunlight and living things. Daylight makes them powerless. Life makes them lament their unlife.
A spectre’s chilling touch causes 1-8 hit points of damage and drains 2 life energy levels from an opponent, the latter due to the negative force of the spectre. Thus, an 11th level character, or an 11 hit dice creature, struck by a spectre would suffer 1-8 hit points of damage plus loss in level ability, hit dice, etc. Such loss is permanent, but characters can regain lost levels through continued acquisition of experience points, of course. Certain magic might restore lost levels as well.
Spectres are not affected by sleep, charm, hold, or cold-based spells. Poison or paralyzation do not harm spectres. Holy water causes a spectre to suffer 2-8 hit points of damage for every vial-full which hits it. A raise dead spell will destroy a spectre unless it makes its saving throw versus magic. Any human totally drained of life energy by a spectre becomes a half-strength spectre under the control of the spectre which drained him.

Wraiths are undead, similar in nature to wights, but they exist more strongly on the negative material plane. They are found only in dark and gloomy places, for they have no power in full sunlight.
In addition to the chilling effect of its touch (1-6 hit points damage), a wraith drains on life energy at the rate of 1 per hit, just as a wight does. Similarly, the wraith can be struck only with silver weapons (which cause only one-half damage) or weapons which are magically enchanted (which score full damage).
Looking at the 1e MM the illustrations for both Spectres and Wraiths very strongly imply incorporeality: the Spectre is obviously at least semi-transparent and the Wraith is shown as a wafty-looking dark thing with no legs.

This is later backed up by the UA Illusionist spell Wraithform, which specifically states the target becomes insubstantial and can pass through tiny openings or cracks and otherwise implies the target becomes a Wraith in all ways except attack forms.
 

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Voadam

Legend
Any incorporeal undead that can fly could go through the floor like that. Wraiths, ghosts, shadows, etc.
Can you remember a reference for that in 1e?

I am looking for one and all I have found was etherealness and ghosts. I was surprised not to see anything about wraiths or spectres being incorporeal in their 1e MM writeups.
 




overgeeked

B/X Known World
I miss it. I miss the grit of AD&D. Probably why I’m goin got go back to it. 5E and it’s hand holding (3 saves to avoid being turned to stone? Etc) just seems really odd to me.

And I guess I never had a bad experience with Level Drain. Yeah it happened but nothing a NPC Cleric at the next big city couldn’t fix, just had to be ready to trade a magic item or 2 for the spell.
That’s what it comes down to for me. There’s no challenge or risk in modern D&D. It’s no longer the pulpy sword & sorcery style fantasy game I love, it’s boring heroic or epic fantasy.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
That’s what it comes down to for me. There’s no challenge or risk in modern D&D. It’s no longer the pulpy sword & sorcery style fantasy game I love, it’s boring heroic or epic fantasy.
Then you should definitely experiment with an exhaustion mechanic for life draining.

Like I was saying of the 3.5Ed version, it was plenty dangerous. I was trying to figure out how and when creature or spell based drains with this mechanism could actually be used without virtually guaranteeing TPKs.

Why? Even though the first two levels of 3.5Ed’s fatigue progression most negatively affect melee characters, you have to remember there’s only 4 levels of fatigue before unconsciousness. That means any PC, regardless of level, is 4 drains away from being helpless.

In a game with energy draining undead doing so with every hit, or casters armed with energy draining weapons and spells including cantrips, the challenge is keeping the party from getting killed.
 

Lyxen

Great Old One
That’s what it comes down to for me. There’s no challenge or risk in modern D&D. It’s no longer the pulpy sword & sorcery style fantasy game I love, it’s boring heroic or epic fantasy.

Although I agree that 5e is not inherently challenging, there are a few things to consider. First, IMHO, D&D was never sword and sorcery, it was always heroic and epic in spirit, in particular with a lot of magic and magic items. Yes, you could play only at low levels with no magic items, but since you were nowhere close to using the full level range, you were only playing a fraction of D&D as published. This is not an accusation of anything or a criticism of a way of playing, just a fact to show that the game was actually designed for at least medium level play and quite a bit of magic. It does not force you to play that way, you could (and I could, at some points in my roleplaying career) enjoy a different way of playing but it was already not the core of the system design (and no, not even B/X since it was always intended to add more levels above it, which BECMI did), otherwise why publish all these levels, spells and items ?

And yes, 5e has a few mechanisms that make it easy, but as long as you are tailoring the system to your taste, it's easy to get rid of Healing Word, and as for death saves, monsters attacking downed adventurers will quickly show that the gamemaster is not fooling around. And then, for recuperation, use the gritty rules of the DMG. It's easy and as built in as playing AD&D at low level without magic items or playing B/X and ignoring BECMI (yes, there are cosmetic differences, but do they really matter ?).

And finally, the challenge is all in the DM and his encounters. Yes, the encounter calculator of 5e is not precise, but did we have a precise encounter calculator in Basic ?
 

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