D&D General Sandbox Campaigns should have a Default Action.

[payn]

I want them to know it is there the whole time. I want them absolutely salivating at the idea of killing it and claiming its hoard, so much so that maybe the try and pull it off a little too early.

Well, in a strategy based game, that little too early is entirely possible, in a tactical based game its suicide. So its important to know what the system supports.

 

[Reynard]

Well, in a strategy based game, that little too early is entirely possible, in a tactical based game its suicide. So its important to know what the system supports.

It's important for THEM to know. I'm just there to roll the breath damage.

 

[payn]

It's important for THEM to know. I'm just there to roll the breath damage.

True, but often times the GM knows much more about the system and how it works, so I do feel some responsibility as GM to make sure they understand the difference. YMMV.

 

[Maxperson]

So honest question. After reading many people's version of sandbox, what if someone were to buy a bunch of adventure paths, create a hub, seed all the rumors for the adventure paths, and then, turn their players' characters loose in in said hub. Then, whatever the players chose they could follow. Sometimes it might lead to following a caravan that is a dragon cult, and other times it might led to the cold and desolate Ten Towns, and still others might lead to a school of magic. Is that sandbox?

Can they decide to leave that hub and all those paths behind to say go to Chult to dig in ruins for treasures of a lost civilization? If yes, then it sounds like a sandbox. If no, then it's not a sandbox. It's a box. A large box if it has that much in it, but a box none the less.

Just as an aside, I never really understood why sandbox games that are all about the freedom to go anywhere and do anything are called sandbox. Sandboxes are limited in size. You can't leave that square area of sand and still be in it.

 

[Maxperson]

Giving NPCs and villains motivations, and understanding the starting state of the sandbox, is a really useful tool for making the PCs feel like they are inhabitants of world, rather than the protagonists of some pre-designed narrative. Keeping track of all that can be a pain, though, and I usually just go with my gut based on the events that have happened when the PCs encounter something that should have moved in the interim. if I was more organized, I would use flowcharts and time trackers and stuff.

I have a friend who tracks like that. He has a large map of the forgotten realms on a cork board in a room. On it he has colored push-pins representing the different groups he is DMing for. He has 3 or 4 I think. He tracks where they go and how much time it takes all of them, and if they intersect with another group at the same time or around the same time, they can meet or they hear rumors about what the other group is doing. Plus all the other stuff he has going on in the world. I don't know how he keeps track of it all.

 

[Maxperson]

There are always spaces in between. If you make a map of a town and flesh out all the major areas, the players are still going to say things like "what happens when I go down this particular alley and look through the nearest window?". For me, those spaces in between is where a lot of the magic happens.

Yep. I run my games in the Forgotten Realms, the setting with by far the most wide spread and detailed lore out there. Even with all of that, there are spaced in-between the lore that I can drive a fleet of trucks through, because you just can't detail a world and fill those without needing a full encyclopedia set of information. That leaves a lot of room for me to get creative within or even outside of the lore and personalize the setting. For all that lore, all it does is accent/enhance what I create.

 

[Reynard]

Can they decide to leave that hub and all those paths behind to say go to Chult to dig in ruins for treasures of a lost civilization? If yes, then it sounds like a sandbox. If no, then it's not a sandbox. It's a box. A large box if it has that much in it, but a box none the less.

Just as an aside, I never really understood why sandbox games that are all about the freedom to go anywhere and do anything are called sandbox. Sandboxes are limited in size. You can't leave that square area of sand and still be in it.

I don't think absolute infinite choice is necessary for a sandbox. Everyone knows there is limited time and resources. The discussion about Chult should happen in session 0 or even earlier -- the "what game are we going to play" discussion. Not that it isn't possible for a campaign to take a hard left turn, but if it does everyone needs to be okay with the GM taking a few weeks off to prep/research/brainstorm the new situation.

 

[Cruentus]

I don't think absolute infinite choice is necessary for a sandbox. Everyone knows there is limited time and resources. The discussion about Chult should happen in session 0 or even earlier -- the "what game are we going to play" discussion. Not that it isn't possible for a campaign to take a hard left turn, but if it does everyone needs to be okay with the GM taking a few weeks off to prep/research/brainstorm the new situation.

I'm running two "sandbox" games right now. And they're a mix of what is being talked about here. In the first, knowing these players, they need that first "adventure" to get them moving. Once they're moving, I can sprinkle hooks and rumors here and there, and then they are free to pursue whatever they want.

The second group is doing a hexcrawl/sandbox. We used Beyond the Wall for character creation, but OSE for classes, etc. The BTW backgrounds gave each character ideas for things they want to do in the world, regardless of hooks. One player wants to be a merchant. So he spends all his time talking to NPC traders about routes, goods, practices. Another is seeking to reclaim his family's lands lost to invasion. Their starting village has several locations nearby they could visit, and they have a map of the environs and what they would likely know. If they want to wander off, they can, to wherever.

To @Reynard s comment, something like Chult might not even be something the party may have heard of. Depends where they are in the realms (unless they hear about it at a port or some such, at least thats how it would run in my game).

I run in Greyhawk, which has the benefit of most of my players knowing nothing about it, the places, the countries, etc. Sure, they could look it up, but they don't. But the FR they know all about and have a general sense of who and what is where. That makes it a little harder.

I'm also using this to try to be a little more parochial. No world ending events, no doomsday clocks, just exploration and the players doing what they think their characters would want to do.

 

[Mannahnin]

Can they decide to leave that hub and all those paths behind to say go to Chult to dig in ruins for treasures of a lost civilization? If yes, then it sounds like a sandbox. If no, then it's not a sandbox. It's a box. A large box if it has that much in it, but a box none the less.

Just as an aside, I never really understood why sandbox games that are all about the freedom to go anywhere and do anything are called sandbox. Sandboxes are limited in size. You can't leave that square area of sand and still be in it.

The key/operative element of a sandbox isn't the size or lack thereof. It's the lack of a prescribed order of play. Within the boundaries of the sandbox, you can do what you please.

I agree with the prior poster that merely seeding a bunch of adventure paths does not make a sandbox. The players need to have the choice of what they want to do, and the ability to go do something else if they no longer find a given location/event/situation compelling, or find it something that their characters would run away from or abandon.

That being said, events or NPCs won't always leave PCs alone! Sometimes you can escape a problem/move on in picaresque fashion, leaving the chaos behind. Other times it follows you, or an NPC holds a grudge, or what have you. I think that Matt Colville is correct when he argues that the GM having plot/events/NPCs chase the PCs and force them to act/react doesn't make a given game a railroad. It only becomes a railroad when the GM prescribes the solutions/outcomes, and unreasonably blocks alternative plans, solutions or actions the players come up with.

 

[Reynard]

I run in Greyhawk, which has the benefit of most of my players knowing nothing about it, the places, the countries, etc. Sure, they could look it up, but they don't. But the FR they know all about and have a general sense of who and what is where. That makes it a little harder.

This is oklay, though, because if during their adventures the players hear of a far off land they would like to visit, they still have to do all the stuff to get there. They need to figure out how to get there and gather their recsources and make the journey. No had left turn required: it's a slow interchange where the switch is part of play.

As opposed to the group sitting down to explore the Sword Coast and on Session 2 jumping on a ship for Chult because the players just decided to do that because they know (as players) it is out there.