Best Feudal/Fantasy Government?

[Zardnaar]

I have been watching the House of the Dragon. House Targaryen seems to have no formal succession laws.

The realm seems to expect male preference while the king seems to try and appoint the successor. It's more Roman than medieval it seems.

Anyway what do you think would be the best form of government in a pre modern era (specifically excluding democracy here). The various DMG's also have fantasy options. From memory (politics 101) Monarchy is the most stable government form military dictatorship is the least stable.

However even in medieval Europe there were other types of rulership eg Republics, Theocracy, Knightly orders, and even a peasant republic. Elective monarchies existed, gavelkind was used.

So pretend this is Crusader Kings, Europa Unversalis or possibly Stellaris or one of the fantasy mods. It's a pre industrial society magic might exist but assume it's a lower level magic.

Various types of primogeniture monarchy.

Primogeniture - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Tonguez]

Elective constitutional monarchy

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I have been watching the House of the Dragon. House Targaryen seems to have no formal succession laws.

The realm seems to expect male preference while the king seems to try and appoint the successor. It's more Roman than medieval it seems.

Anyway what do you think would be the best form of government in a pre modern era (specifically excluding democracy here). The various DMG's also have fantasy options. From memory (politics 101) Monarchy is the most stable government form military dictatorship is the least stable.

However even in medieval Europe there were other types of rulership eg Republics, Theocracy, Knightly orders, and even a peasant republic. Elective monarchies existed, gavelkind was used.

So pretend this is Crusader Kings, Europa Unversalis or possibly Stellaris or one of the fantasy mods. It's a pre industrial society magic might exist but assume it's a lower level magic.

Various types of primogeniture monarchy.

Primogeniture - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"Male preference but no formal succession laws" is medieval, more so than the alternative. The storyline of the Dance of the Dragons/House of the Dragon is almost taken vertabrim from "the Anarchy", the period in English history where the succession was contested between Henry I's daughter Matilda and her cousin Etienne of Blois. In this era the idea of a firm succession law was not really a thing - Henry I had succeeded his elder brother William while their eldest brother, Robert, was still alive (and had been passed over twice for inheritance).

Coming up with "eldest male succeeds" or "eldest male child succeeds, failing that a daughter" was come up with later, precisely to avoid costly succession wars. (The Ottomans found another method - kill all other male heirs upon a dynast succeeding to the throne).

 

[Zardnaar]

"Male preference but no formal succession laws" is medieval, more so than the alternative. The storyline of the Dance of the Dragons/House of the Dragon is almost taken vertabrim from "the Anarchy", the period in English history where the succession was contested between Henry I's daughter Matilda and her cousin Etienne of Blois. In this era the idea of a firm succession law was not really a thing - Henry I had succeeded his elder brother William while their eldest brother, Robert, was still alive (and had been passed over twice for inheritance).

Coming up with "eldest male succeeds" or "eldest male child succeeds, failing that a daughter" was come up with later, precisely to avoid costly succession wars. (The Ottomans found another method - kill all other male heirs upon a dynast succeeding to the throne).

Yup succession laws became more entrenched the closer one gets to modern era. Absurd to us but they had their reasons.

 

[Zardnaar]

Elective constitutional monarchy

Mostly a modern era thing although I suppose you could say 1688 onwards.

Title does say feudal though so it's kinda cheating as feudalism was long gone. It's plausible I suppose.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Yup succession laws became more entrenched the closer one gets to modern era. Absurd to us but they had their reasons.

Absurd? Don't agree. Succession is a cornerstone of the stability of the state, whether the system of government is monarchical or not. The only way to avoid civil war is to be absolutely sure who is next in line to rule, otherwise, chaos is unleashed. That's why a King is succeeded by his son, and a President is succeeded by his Vice President, etc.

In the medieval era the (Eastern) Roman Empire was absolutely wrecked by continuing succession wars - that's what doomed Constantinople more than anything else. In Western Europe there were a series of underaged kings, and plenty of terrible kings, but the states endured - why? Because when everyone agrees on who wears the crown, there's no reason to fight over it. By the time of the Ninth Crusade England's succession law was so tight that on Henry III's death his son Edward could take his time returning from the Holy Land, knowing that his throne was waiting for him when he got there. Only a few centuries earlier he would have come home to discover his younger brother had the crown. (Assuming in this alternate reality Edmund Crouchback wasn't on crusade too)

 

[Zardnaar]

Absurd? Don't agree. Succession is a cornerstone of the stability of the state, whether the system of government is monarchical or not. The only way to avoid civil war is to be absolutely sure who is next in line to rule, otherwise, chaos is unleashed. That's why a King is succeeded by his son, and a President is succeeded by his Vice President, etc.

In the medieval era the (Eastern) Roman Empire was absolutely wrecked by continuing succession wars - that's what doomed Constantinople more than anything else. In Western Europe there were a series of underaged kings, and plenty of terrible kings, but the states endured - why? Because when everyone agrees on who wears the crown, there's no reason to fight over it. By the time of the Ninth Crusade England's succession law was so tight that on Henry III's death his son Edward could take his time returning from the Holy Land, knowing that his throne was waiting for him when he got there. Only a few centuries earlier he would have come home to discover his younger brother had the crown. (Assuming in this alternate reality Edmund Crouchback wasn't on crusade too)

The rules to us may be absurd and unfair but they existed for a reason. Basically what you listed.

Was it Basil II in Byzantium who didn't make any plans for succession and had no kids?

Ottoman succession was brutal and they stopped doing it downside was several centuries of incompetent rulers.

Very different times.

 

[aco175]

The best would be Socrates and his Philosopher-King idea, but good luck finding one and establishing a system to replace one. In a fantasy game you can use an angel or elf to have a kingdom rules for 1,000 years though. A pretty good run for a kingdom.

 

[Zardnaar]

The best would be Socrates and his Philosopher-King idea, but good luck finding one and establishing a system to replace one. In a fantasy game you can use an angel or elf to have a kingdom rules for 1,000 years though. A pretty good run for a kingdom.

Think Byzantium is one of the few that lasted 1000+years. No elf required.

Longest lasting Christian nation with the same form of government iirc.

Venice and San Marino are contenders as well.

 

[aco175]

Think Byzantium is one of the few that lasted 1000+years. No elf required.

Then that is the best, or at least the most stable which could be argued the best for the commoners.