D&D (2024) What new jargon do you want to replace "Race"?

[codo]

Because people aren't considering the reason for the change, just the change itself. They want something the 'feels' like 'race' even though that's literally the issue.

Exactly. I know a lot of people are uncomfortable discussing race and our cultural history of racism, but it is impossible to have a discussion about the game term "race" with out actually discussing or understanding why people are actually upset in the first place.

Seriously, I understand wanting to use an "old-timey" word, but Gary Gygax created the game in the early 70. The decision to use race to refer to different fantasy species is staggering in its tone-deafness. It's not like race wasn't a controversial and loaded term in 1974!

 

[Scribe]

You just solved racism is 4 sentences? Who knew it was so easy. Simplistic examples using terms with no history or baggage makes for easy answers.

No, because nobody in this thread, or at WoTC is solving racism.

No Orc, has ever, does, or will ever, walk this planet.

 

[codo]

No, because nobody in this thread, or at WoTC is solving racism.

No Orc, has ever, does, or will ever, walk this planet.

Yes orcs are not real people. They are however often a metaphor for or stand in for for real world racial groups.

Orcs are literally the "other", "them", the boogeyman, a generic stand in for evil people. They are violent, savage, stupid, lazy, hypersexual, and often more than a little rapey. The problem is that these are the exact same terms that were frequently applies to Blacks, Indians, Hispanics, or whatever other racial minority it is currently in fashion to hate.

 

[Scribe]

Yes orcs are not real people. They are however often a metaphor for or stand in for for real world racial groups.

Orcs are literally the "other", "them", the boogeyman, a generic stand in for evil people. They are violent, savage, stupid, lazy, hypersexual, and often more than a little rapey. The problem is that these are the exact same terms that were frequently applies to Blacks, Indians, Hispanics, or whatever other racial minority it is currently in fashion to hate.

And these descriptions were wrong, and corrected, as they should be. Can they get their +2 Str back now?

 

[codo]

And these descriptions were wrong, and corrected, as they should be. Can they get their +2 Str back now?

View attachment 270385

Seriously you can just claim, problem solved, D&D is not racist anymore, we don't need to talk about it any more. Forget 50 years of history.

 

[Mecheon]

And these descriptions were wrong, and corrected, as they should be. Can they get their +2 Str back now?

Nah, let folks pick what they want so I can play Torg Toughbody, Orc endurance wrestler who needs tha +2 con instead to do his day job of famous wrestler the Horcinator, who can take every move his opponents launch at him and keep on going

if you're saying that doesn't fit an orc, I got questions

 

[Micah Sweet]

And these descriptions were wrong, and corrected, as they should be. Can they get their +2 Str back now?

View attachment 270385

We got the uber-bland description everyone apparently wanted. Yay.

 

[Scribe]

Seriously you can just claim, problem solved, D&D is not racist anymore, we don't need to talk about it any more. Forget 50 years of history.

Yeah, I'm not going to say D&D is racist.

What do I care about 50 years of history that has already been either openly actively disavowed, or undone/rewritten as with the image I just showed you directly out of MotM?

What more do you want? Every past work (some of it which was quite racist!) to be burned? Like honestly, we all understand why 'race' is being replaced here, what more do you realistically want out of D&D that will satisfy what you feel in regards to '50 years of history'?

 

[Scribe]

Nah, let folks pick what they want so I can play Torg Toughbody, Orc endurance wrestler who needs tha +2 con instead to do his day job of famous wrestler the Horcinator, who can take every move his opponents launch at him and keep on going

if you're saying that doesn't fit an orc, I got questions

+2 Str/+1 Con, put your highest in Con, and bobs your uncle.

 

[codo]

Yeah, I'm not going to say D&D is racist.

What do I care about 50 years of history that has already been either openly actively disavowed, or undone/rewritten as with the image I just showed you directly out of MotM?

What more do you want? Every past work (some of it which was quite racist!) to be burned? Like honestly, we all understand why 'race' is being replaced here, what more do you realistically want out of D&D that will satisfy what you feel in regards to '50 years of history'?

I am not saying D&D is racist, not all of it anyways. There are parts of it in the past the were deliberately intended to be racist. There were, and still are, parts that are inadvertently or subconsciously racist.

D&D plays with mixing lots of different fantasy, historical, and literary tropes. It is suppressing easy for a game designer with the best of intentions, to accidentally revert to racist tropes. Look at the whole Hadozee mess. I don't think it was intentionaly intended to be racist, but it really shows you always using professional sensitivity readers is such a good idea. When you are working with a setting that includes flying monkey people, looting and pillaging pirates from the age of sail, Eldritch Monsters that enslave entire races, and bards that dance around the dungeon with a lute, you don't need to intend to be racist to stumble into a horrible idea.

I will give WotC credit, they are trying, and the developers do seem like they care. This isn't something you can just declare solved and not have to talk about anymore. That is how you end up with problems like the Hodozee, in the first place. This isn't blaming anyone or making them feel bad about the past, it is making sure this issue don't keep happening.