D&D (2024) Am I crazy, or did they just turn Stealth into full Ninja mode?

[Stalker0]

The current 5e stealth rules aren’t terrible, they just need some shoring up.

1) passive perceptions are too low at mid to high levels. It’s trivial for a decent rogue to never fail a check.

2) the main confusion is the combat scenario of acting, stealth, some other acting (this can attacks, movements, spells, xyz.

3) when is it necessary to “reroll stealth”. If I sneak into a room, search the room, then sneak into the next room, technically my first stealth roll is still good…but it can get a little silly when taken to extremes.


But yeah the new rules are not good. With these rules it is absolutely trivial for even a 1st level rogue to just sneak around a whole complex without any fear of detection

 

[Charlaquin]

The current 5e stealth rules aren’t terrible, they just need some shoring up.

1) passive perceptions are too low at mid to high levels. It’s trivial for a decent rogue to never fail a check.

I believe this is by design. Rogues are supposed to be that good at stealth. YMMV on if you feel it’s a good design decision, but I do think it’s at least a conscious one.

2) the main confusion is the combat scenario of acting, stealth, some other acting (this can attacks, movements, spells, xyz.

Yeah. I think it’s clear that the intent is for stealth in combat be reliable enough for rogues to gain advantage every turn. The problem IMO is that this is too much for many DMs’ suspension of disbelief. For me it helps to think about stealth not as “the enemies have no idea where you could possibly be” and more “the enemies can’t get enough of a read on you to properly anticipate your attacks.

3) when is it necessary to “reroll stealth”. If I sneak into a room, search the room, then sneak into the next room, technically my first stealth roll is still good…but it can get a little silly when taken to extremes.

I think this problem is easily solved by calling for a roll only when it’s relevant. If you sneak into the room and there’s nothing there to see you, there’s no need to make a roll. If you then sneak into the next room and there is something there that might see you, that’s when you roll. Roll when there’s a chance of failure, not before.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I’d love for them to devote a whole page to stealth that acknowledges some of the difficulties, and presents three different general ways of handling it. Spellcasting get like, what, dozens of pages?

 

[Bill Zebub]

I believe this is by design. Rogues are supposed to be that good at stealth. YMMV on if you feel it’s a good design decision, but I do think it’s at least a conscious one.

Yeah, I’ve played with DMs who apply strict realism to stealth. It’s…unfun.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, I’ve played with DMs who apply strict realism to stealth. It’s…unfun.

I don’t think it’s even unrealistic to allow hiding in combat, so long as you keep in mind that hidden doesn’t mean they have no clue where you could possibly be, it just means they can’t get a good enough bead on you to properly anticipate your attacks.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don’t think it’s even unrealistic to allow hiding in combat, so long as you keep in mind that hidden doesn’t mean they have no clue where you could possibly be, it just means they can’t get a good enough bead on you to properly anticipate your attacks.

My 9-year old likes to sneak up behind me, and then move as I turn to look for him so I still don't see him, even though I KNOW he's there somewhere, and I'm actively looking for him. He'll do it when we're in a store or a park or something like that. I'll start looking for him in the distance, wondering where he's run off to, and when I finally yell his name he steps out from behind me with a huge grin.

But, no, it's too unrealistic to ask for my rogue to be able to do that to a guard.

 

[James Gasik]

I've long since gone out of my way to not take Stealth unless it's given to me simply because of how unreliable it is. Every time I've attempted to use it in a game, I find myself in a solo encounter, to the point where I'm like "you know what, obviously we're not intended to scout ahead or avoid combats or get ambushes, so let's just run into combats unprepared like the DM wants us to do."

Then the DM gets annoyed that we never scout ahead or try to avoid combats. ^-^

 

[Clint_L]

I don’t think it’s even unrealistic to allow hiding in combat, so long as you keep in mind that hidden doesn’t mean they have no clue where you could possibly be, it just means they can’t get a good enough bead on you to properly anticipate your attacks.

You mean you could sort of, like, dodge out of the way? Or even practice evasion when you get good enough?

 

[Horwath]

And it still has that you can't successfully hide if you can't hit the threshold DC 15 crap. That part still sucks.

it should be 15 or passive perception of anyone: whatever is higher.

that is, you are invisible for all that you "hit" their passive perception.

Base of 15 is just so not all can do it consistently(read, you need expertise and good dex. As it should be).

wood elves should get lower requirements for stealth as half-cover/lightly obscured.

 

[MNblockhead]

On the whole, I prefer natural language and dislike a preponderance of conditions, so I am not in favor of the rule as it’s currently written.

BUT, it strikes me a wee bit disingenuous to take what obviously game mechanics terms and treat them like natural language. The invisible condition is not invisibility, it is mechanical heuristic to simplify various situations in which a character cannot be seen by visual means. A character that walks right by the guards is no longer hiding, thus no longer benefiting from the Hide Action, thus no longer under the Invisible condition, thus is seen by the guards. I would adjudicate it this way every day of the week, twice on Sundays, and lose nary a wink of sleep over it.

Of course, that’s assuming this is all happening during combat, where Actions have meaning. If we’re out of combat, and the Rogue wants to sneak in the castle, he or she would have to make a Dexterity (Stealth) check, and beat the guards’ passive Perception, the same as they always have.

Yeah, just call the condition "unseen". You can be unseen because of concealment. Invisible gives you the unseen condition even if you have no physical concealment. All the other rules regarding making noise above a whisper, etc., apply.