WFRP 4th Edition - How the game has evolved.

TheSword

Legend
C28C254F-33B7-4F5A-9420-1C19D7492D63.jpeg


There have been a lot of changes with WFRP 4th edition since it was released three years ago. Mainly through optional rules release in compilation supplements similar to Tasha’s and Xanathar’s. I’ve been asked what changes have been made. So I thought it was worth summarizing here in a few posts. There’s lots of good stuff and the game is really evolving well. Happy to answer any questions.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
I'll kick this off!

@TheSword - imagine, if you will, that someone used to play WFRP EXTENSIVELY and LOVED IT ... but they only played WFRP in Cincinnati ... um, WFRP 1e.

While being reasonably cognizant that there were different editions (including hearing about 3e, which was not interesting to this, um, hypothetical person) ... how would you compare 4e to 1e?
 

TheSword

Legend
DC1B53F7-A3A9-40CA-80C3-5FFC8A87EC95.jpeg


I’m going to focus on the mechanics that the books describe because this sourcebook also has lots of fluff about living as a soldier, knightly orders, the kingdom of Tilea and the cult of Myrmidia.

In terms of careers it adds.
  • Military careers (Archer, halberdier, artillerist etc)
  • Knighlt order careers (Knight panther, White wolf etc)
  • Speciality priest of Myrmidia.

It includes a human variant for Tilean characters.

Miracles for Myrmidian priests

If you’re bleeding at 0 wounds you have to make a challenging endurance test or fall unconscious. (This used to be automatic)
If you hit an opponent with 0 wounds they automatically take a critical hit and you add 10% to the chart.

You now roll again for hit ocation on a critical hit (previously you couldn’t get a crit on the head as it’s range was 0-9% and you get a hit on a double)

New Crit tables that make some critical hits trivial that don’t do major wounds and just add status like effects. Also extend beyond 100 so you can’t die from a normal critical hit (only ones taken at zero wounds)

New equipment related to soldiers.

New rules for qualities. Slash weapons automatically cause a bleed on a crit and you can spend advantage to do more bleeds. Spread weapons affect more people you are the further away you stand. Trip weapons can be used to knock opponents prone by spending advantage

Shields now apply their AC bonus any time you have one and defend (used to only be if you defending with a shield, which sucked it you were really good with a different weapon)

New weapons tables taking into account the new item qualities. A re-balancing overall.

Added the Pavise shield as Armour 4

New rules for Mounted Combat. Both act on the same initiative. Riders can spend their move to direct their mount’s move. They can use an action to make their mount make an action. +20 to hit a smaller target than the mount you’re riding. -10 to hit the rider if the mount is larger than you. When charging you can use the size of the mount and it’s strength instead of yours to calculate damage.

New creature traits for mounts and new hit locations for quadrupeds.

Rules for demigryph mounts.

Rules for hirelings (mercenaries, scouts, and other careers)

Rules for siege artillery and defensive structures

Rules for running pursuits

Lastly and most importantly rules for group advantage. This was one of the toughest elements to track in the original version as every creature kept its own and it could be easily gained and lost. The new rules have a player pool and a DM pool with players contributing the way they would previously have gained it… by winning an opposed test, by dealing direct damage to the enemy, by a major accomplishment (like killing a leader) or by passing a relevant test (Animal handling to spot a mounts injury for instance).

Players and the DM can spend their pool to activate a perk in battle for one round.
  • 1 point to batter your opponent prone
  • 1 point to perform a trick to add a relevant condition (cut their trouser belt to entangle them etc)
  • 2 points to gain a +10% bonus on a test with an extra 10% for every extra point beyond 2 spent. (This used to gained automatically every round based on your current advantage)
  • 2 points to flee from harm without provoking AOO
  • 4 points to get an extra action in combat. (I see this used the most as players save the advantage and use it to get extra attacks or a free reload)

You can also gain or lose advantage through some talents but also if one side is more dominant than the other (having higher ground, vastly outnumbering etc. you can then take one point from the weaker sides pool and give it to the dominant ones.

You can seed the advantage pools with starting points if one side has an advantage (like a particularly clever ambush)

The instability creature trait has been changed to take this into consideration.

The assess action has been added that allows you to gain 2 or 3 advantage for your sides pool.

You no longer get advantage for charging, instead getting +10% to the first melee test you make in the combat.

Talents Beat Blade, Distract, Drilled, Flee!, Gunner, and Rapid Reload, Shieldsman, Relentless, and Reversal are re-written to account for the new advantage rules.

Roughrider talent improves mounted combat

Strike to injure let’s you roll twice on the crit table and pick the best.

Finally there are downtime endeavors you can practice to develop a weapon technique you can use once in the next adventure. For instance the Leitdorf Defense that lets you make a weapon attack at -10 but the opponent can’t you any skill advances or talents when defending. But you also take 1d10 damage - TB. A risky but powerful move against a skilled opponent to baffle them with your unexpected attack. I love Warhammer!

So that is the first book to update you with. Lots of new stuff and some good changes to existing stuff… simpler shields, head critical, group advantage and more balanced weapons. I’ll come onto Magic shortly as this one took longer than I expected.
 

TheSword

Legend
I'll kick this off!

@TheSword - imagine, if you will, that someone used to play WFRP EXTENSIVELY and LOVED IT ... but they only played WFRP in Cincinnati ... um, WFRP 1e.

While being reasonably cognizant that there were different editions (including hearing about 3e, which was not interesting to this, um, hypothetical person) ... how would you compare 4e to 1e?
The single biggest change is the move away from simple 1d00 tests to succeed or fail at a task (hitting the enemy for instance) towards opposed roles, where both attacker and defender roll and the degree to which each side beats their own target determines success. This is a major departure from earlier editions. Now a character with 20 WS has 50-50 chance of hitting an opponent who also has 20 WS rather than a 20% chance as in earlier edition.

Secondly character advancement limits are no longer limited by careers. instead careers set what skills and ability stats you are best at developing and instead you have diminishing returns. So increasing a stat by 0 to 5% costs 125 XP but increasing it from 20% to 25% costs 350%. Advancement is a toss up between specialising and thus being better at the opposed checks mentioned above and having a broader and this much more efficient range of skills. No more T7 trollslayers being immune to damage effectively.

There is now an extended range of prayers and miracles for priests of the many gods which didn’t really exist in first edition (it was just like other magic) the system also allows you to gain sin points for acting against your scriptures.

Magic has been changed substantially from 2nd (which was itself a big change from the spell points of 1st edition). It’s controversial and probably the biggest source of criticism for the edition - mainly on account of it either being overwhelming brilliant or terribly dangerous/ineffective. The petty spell dart was also seen by many as being the better than any other spell. I will say the new supplements have largely corrected this in my opinion and I’ll share why in my next next post later this evening.

I’ve played all four edition over the years… I actually played 1st Ed much more than D&D as a teenager and I’m a big fan. Our group has been playing for about a year and to be honest I enjoy it now more than D&D and it’s variants (Pathfinder etc). I just think it makes things we take for granted in 5e more fun and interesting.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Supporter
I’ve played all four edition over the years… I actually played 1st Ed much more than D&D as a teenager and I’m a big fan. Our group has been playing for about a year and to be honest I enjoy it now more than D&D and it’s variants (Pathfinder etc). I just think it makes things we take for granted in 5e more fun and interesting.

I've been thinking of dipping my toe back in .... I spend a LOT of time playing WFRP 1e (second, probably, only to AD&D 1e) back in the day.

This gives me a push to go and check out 4e- thanks!
 

TheSword

Legend
7BED4BAF-BED7-47F5-9F7C-9EE071740FFD.jpeg


Group advantage was a game changer but as I said in my response to @Snarf Zagyg
Magic is one of the things most criticized in 4e. The channelling mechanic was seen as pointless and in many cases actively dangerous.

Because Magic tests were unopposed they were seen as too difficult until you reached a certain XP at which point they became amazing and took over. The way overcasting worked you adding an extra point of damage for every SL (10%) you beat the spell test by. You could also target an extra creature for every 2 SLs you beat the test by. So it was better to cast the Petty spell dart than most more powerful but harder to cast spells. Winds of Magic largely fixes all these issues.

Fluff wise the book contains a full history of magic in the empire, details on each lore of magic, it’s practitioners, colleges and sample NPC. Every wind has additional spells and a full specialist career for that lore of magic. One of the neatest things it adds is magical transformations called Marks. More on that in a moment.

Second sight can now be used to replicate other skills where appropriate. So you could use second sight to follow a wizard instead of using the track skill.

There are new miscast tables (You no longer get 1d10 bleeds from a nosebleed!) A very neat result is the marked by magic result which is very cool! You gain a visual and in some cases mechanical effect from getting so close to magic. Each lore has a table of these Arcane Marks. For instance a light wizard might gain eyes of pure white which gives -1 SL in fellowship tests. Or gain an aura of light that makes light sources grow brighter by 2 yards whenever you get within 20 yards of them. Minor mechanical effects but extremely characterful. One of the marks for each wind is even that you gain a talent that makes it easier to use that lore… suffused by X

A wizard can use their enchanted staff to deliver a touch spell instead of making a melee brawling check.

You get +1 SL to cast a spell that is already affected by a spell from your lore that round.

Channelling has been changed a huge amount. You don’t have to pick the spell first when you start to channel. It’s no longer necessary to channel all the power for a spell - you can now part-channel and then take the magic test in the hope you get the rest of the SLs you need (in the past you had to channel all the way or lose the spell) you can also now vent the power as an action. You can critically channel to gain WPB extra channelling SLs but also take minor miscast (unless you have aethyric attunement talent - which you probably do). If you fumble a miscast roll you only take a minor miscast (ignored if you used ingredients with the spell).

It’s also worth noting in Archives of the Empire 3 - there is an extra bonus for wizards called cants which they gain as they learn spells. These Cants use a little of the channeled energy… examples for Bright Wizards for instance include: Brighten Blaze which lets you enlarge fires and possibly set nearby creatures ablaze; Set Alight which lets you set people on fire if you hit with a melee attract and Fervent Bellow which lets you remove broken conditions from an ally. These are really neat and make channelling more flexible.

Overcasting has been changed a lot. Instead of getting flat increases to targets, area of effect, range and duration as well as stacking with increased damage you now decide to spend overcasting SLs on these things with diminishing returns and additional damage is one of these options rather than stacking on top of them. Dart is no longer the Uber-spell!

For instance you can spend 1 SL of overcasting to gain +1 target but now 5 SLs are needed to get +2 targets. A Fireball with 5 yards radius is good again.

There are lots more spells… dozens of them.

There are rules for rituals which require extended casting and special ingredients but have powerful effects. You can make power stones, summon elementals, create familiars, and imbue your own staff with enchantments (see later)

There are new downtime endeavors for brewing potions, gathering ingredients and performing rituals.

There are new careers for Beadles (A university porter), mundane alchemists, Master Vigilants (who are wizards hunting wizards) and Scryers.

There are new skills - Augury which allows you to get bonuses to a couple of tests each day if successful. Psychometry to read objects psychic residues.

There are new rules for Alchemy with a wide range of alchemical products that can be created. Including some quasi magical items like the Al-Kahest or the Compass of Meteoric Silver

There are rules for Wizards robes which aid channelling and enchanted staffs which aid casting.

Rules for writing spell scrolls.

Rules for brewing magical potions with side effects and options for combining effects (Very Harry Potteresq)

Rules for Power stones which make it easier to cast spells as a one off.

Rules for grimoires and cursed items.

Rules for incarnate elementals (very powerful summons) and the rituals to bind them.

Rules for crafting constructs and familiars and customizing them (even using them as characters that can develop)

Rules for environmental magic saturation and magical environmental corruption, storms of magic, key lines, way stones and using/crafting them. Arcane fulcrums and nexuses of power with some examples given and their powers.

There are some magical Nemesis like Egrim Van Horstman, the Blue Scribes of Tzeentch fully statted out. Also a Fimir Demonologist along with a couple of pages of nasty Fimir marsh spells. She’s called Mona Mimn.

The book finishes off with two pages of adventure outlines involving an Auction and an Apprentice. With a magical licence for a PC to fill out at the very end.

All in all this book is pretty freaking amazing for anyone wanting to play a wizard. I just wish I knew someone to DM for me!
 
Last edited:

Tutara

Adventurer
After a- what- 20 year hiatus, I am going back to WFRP, so this is very helpful. I really like a lot of what 4E has put in place. I already have some of the Archives, so knowing a few other useful supplements is wonderful.

My first love was 1E, with its critical hit charts and impregnable dwarves, but it is a very particular sort of game (where you win a barfight and still die of fantasy tetanus three days later). I love if for nostalgia, but I think 4E is a very worthy successor.

I am going to be running the Enemy Within, beginning in the summer. The 4E editions of the campaign are gorgeous (and my original copy of 1E Warhammer Adventure is a little less than a scattered mess of yellow paper now) so I cannot wait to dive back in.
 

This doesn't really change my perception that WFRP 4e has a good deal more rules that I prefer, but I still appreciate the rundown of the changes in newer books (I only read the core rules).
 

TheSword

Legend
A lot (if not all) of what I have described is optional people definitely shouldn’t let the volume put people off. Those to books are definitely must buys in my opinion for any group wanting to play the game long term.

I just love how the edition explains the 1e gap with the later incarnations of bright wizards with flaming hair and braziers on their back. A 2nd career level wizard can craft robes to attract the winds of Magic around them, gain flaming hair when their magic gets out of control and imbue a staff with magic to aid their casting. Not because of a career but because of decisions they make in game. I love that. It’s everything I want but can’t get in 5e.
 

I agree, Warhammer mages feel notably more flavourful than their D&D counterparts. And I always had a soft spot for dwarves with mohawks and big axes ;) (a while ago, I read some of the Gotrek and Felix books again). After reading the WFRP 4e core rules, though, I felt that it is overcomplicating things compared to 2e (for which I still have the books). I appreciate that Cubicle 7 are also putting out a number of shorter adventures, though, so maybe at some point I will need to give it another look and check out the books you discussed.
Do you also plan to talk about Sea of Claws and the Lustria book here?
 

Remove ads

Top