TSR Appendix N Discussion

[Parmandur]

I've only skimmed the essay, but Lewis seems to be overlooking the role of Science Fiction as warning. And thus the whole "dystopian" sub-genre, which we know was already present at the time - e.g. H.G. Wells, "The Time Machine". Not saying he is wrong, just that he is not seeing the whole picture. Science fiction can show us things we want to exist, but it can also show us things we don't.

To be fair, Lewis is pretty clear he means these as preliminary thoughts because he couldn't find anyone talking about the topic seriously at the time.

Based on his experiences in Public School and WWI (he preferred the trench warfare), dystopia may have hit too close to home.

 

[Parmandur]

You must not use Twitter

Not if I can avoid it.

 

[Parmandur]

Absolutely, and Tolkien never set out to be original, he set out to retell Saxon myth. The Hobbit is a total rip-off of Beowulf!

For sure, "originality" was not something that Tolkien was focused on, but the relationship between Beowulf and the Hobbit is somewhat different than the relationship between Lord of the Rings and Sword of Shanara. Or like how the Ents storming Isengsrd is derived from MacBeth is a pretty wild leap on Tolkien's part, but Sword of Shanara doesn't make much in the way of any leaps.

Though again, bot putting down Sword of Shanara: being derivative was the point of Brooks exercise in amateur writing on the side to keep his sanity througj College, he spread his wings when it's wild success allowed him to go pro a a writer.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure this essay predates most of the great dystopia literature.

Wells had written several others as well as the Time Machine, and was well known. And if the 1975 date is correct, there was Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, 1984, Lord of the Flies, and a good many other dystopian classics (which I can't name off the top of my head) floating about at the time.

 

[Sacrosanct]

This is inaccurate. 3H & 3L was 1953 as a novella in Fantasy & Science Fiction, expanded in 1961. LOTR was released in 1954-1955. The Hobbit was 1937. The 1961 expansion does have references to LOTR in it, Mirkwood and Wargs but the elves were influenced by Oberon and the Faerie, their iron allergy etc and the dwarf is more strongly Germanic than Tolkien’s dwarves. The references are more likely there as a wink and a nudge as Anderson’s work is Charlemagne and Arthurian romance.

Ninja Ed by others!!!

1953 is more than a decade after 1937, right?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

1953 is more than a decade after 1937, right?

That depends on how fast you are going.

 

[Parmandur]

Wells had written several others as well as the Time Machine, and was well known. And if the 1975 date is correct, there was Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, 1984, Lord of the Flies, and a good many other dystopian classics (which I can't name off the top of my head) floating about at the time.

I edited my post, because he references LotR, so it's at least in the 50's. 1975 must be the date the collection was printed, because C. S. Lewis was definitely dead by '75.

 

[Parmandur]

1953 is more than a decade after 1937, right?

I went and checked ked Anderson's own account of his history with Tolkien, and he discovered the Hobvit in "the early 50's," so 3 Lions may or may not have been before he read the Hobbit (which he loved). Rolen Sword was before, for sure.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I edited my post, because he references LotR, so it's at least in the 50's. 1975 must be the date the collection was printed, because C. S. Lewis was definitely dead by '75.

He died in 63 acording to his bio, but the end notes include this: "Lewis is thinking, I believe, of Robert A. Heinlein's 'By His Bootstraps' in Spectrum: A Science Fiction Anthology (1961)." which would mean the essay must have been written after that date. So all those titles I mentioned had been published. He could have even seen the movie version of The Time Machine (1960).

 

[Parmandur]

He died in 63 acording to his bio, but the end notes include this: "Lewis is thinking, I believe, of Robert A. Heinlein's 'By His Bootstraps' in Spectrum: A Science Fiction Anthology (1961)." which would mean the essay must have been written after that date. So all those titles I mentioned had been published. He could have even seen the movie version of The Time Machine (1960).

Poking around some more, Lewis was a big fan of Orwell, though he preferred Animal Farm to 1984 and felt it would be a more timeless and enduring piece of literature. I reckon he was right, though of course Lewis would prefer the talking animal book.