Why is/was Shadowrun more popular than Cyberpunk?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Why is it Shadowrun flew while CP walked/crawled along?

 

[MGibster]

I think the real magic of Shadowrun was the friendship we found on the way. Okay, I think the real magic is that Shadowrun frequently changed the setting over the years without actually blowing up the setting. I haven't kept up with the setting overall, but they've had sorts of interesting stuff like the Cognative Fragmentation Disorder, a pending invasion of Insect Spirits, Vampire Mutations, Dragon Wars, etc., etc. to a degree that Cyberpunk never really had.

Perhaps the real reason is that RPGs aren't a great place to make money and Mike Pondsmith had to find other work in the 90s to better support his family.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

That's one of my problems. If I want to do Shadowrun-like gaming I can 1) homebrew it with a generic system, or 2) play Shadowrun. If I want to do Cyberpunk-like gaming, I have 6-10 games on my shelf (of varying degrees of complexity) that can do it more to my preferred crunch level.

There are some great rules-light cyberpunk games out there Cy_Borg springs immediately to mind.

Shadowrun also had the advantage of having a decent line of setting novels going. Naturally, not all of them are great, but even when re-reading some of them last year, they held up surprisingly well.

When you look at the 90s, AD&D, Vampire, Shadowrun, some of the top RPGs of the time, all had big novel lines. I do wonder how much fiction lines actually contribute to an RPG's success. Though, certainly, with TSR, the "Bank of Random House" financial system makes judgement difficult.

I think a lot of it was quality. SR1 had a few color plates, the cover art was often painting-quality, and there was a more distinctive layout with their "shadowtalk" annotation/forum injecting setting metaphors even into a simple gear book.

If I look at my copy of Cyberpunk v2 and compare it to Shadowrun's core book, the difference in art is notable. While the b&w work of Cyberpunk v2 has a lot of charm, the production quality of Shadowrun stands out. Heck, it even has that Larry Elmore cover.

These days, Cyberpunk Red's core book is loaded with gorgeous art, and I'd say they're neck-and-neck for presentation quality.

CP never really had the lore that SR did.

I'm not so sure on that. It seems to me Cyberpunk has its share of legendary figures and locations, names and histories. While Shadowrun certainly presents a larger canvas of its world, Cyberpunk focused more on the single location of Night City.

 

[schneeland]

When you look at the 90s, AD&D, Vampire, Shadowrun, some of the top RPGs of the time, all had big novel lines. I do wonder how much fiction lines actually contribute to an RPG's success. Though, certainly, with TSR, the "Bank of Random House" financial system makes judgement difficult.

Yes, that's true. However, besides Drizzt novels, the Shadowrun ones were the only ones I saw on the shelves of normal book stores at the time.
Also, I think I might personally not have started with Shadowrun if it wasn't for the Secrets of Power trilogy.

If I look at my copy of Cyberpunk v2 and compare it to Shadowrun's core book, the difference in art is notable. While the b&w work of Cyberpunk v2 has a lot of charm, the production quality of Shadowrun stands out. Heck, it even has that Larry Elmore cover.

Yes, that's good point. A lot of the art still looks great even by today's standards (mainly the black&white interior illustrations, but the Elmore cover is also a classic).

 

[Staffan]

When you look at the 90s, AD&D, Vampire, Shadowrun, some of the top RPGs of the time, all had big novel lines. I do wonder how much fiction lines actually contribute to an RPG's success. Though, certainly, with TSR, the "Bank of Random House" financial system makes judgement difficult.

I think there are two aspects to consider regarding novels. One is the actual sales of the novels themselves, but the other is their effect as advertisement and inspiration. Novels are often sold in other places than regular game stuff, and as such can reach new audiences, and they can also make GMs more likely to run games in that setting/game.

 

[Umbran]

Why is it Shadowrun flew while CP walked/crawled along?

In a nutshell, I think a mundane high tech world is just less broadly appealing for an RPG than a similar world with a ton of magic also worked in.

 

[Reynard]

In a nutshell, I think a mundane high tech world is just less broadly appealing for an RPG than a similar world with a ton of magic also worked in.

It seems like fantasy is general is more appealing than not-fantasy in TTRPGs. Most of the other well known genre RPGs also include fantastic elements, from Shadowrun to Deadlands to Starfinder. If you include Star Wars and Super Heroes in the "fantasy category" it seems like fantasy is more popular broadly, too. Not that there aren't counter examples like Traveller, but on balance I think people prefer dragons and magic and stuff.

 

[Umbran]

Most of the other well known genre RPGs also include fantastic elements, from Shadowrun to Deadlands to Starfinder. If you include Star Wars and Super Heroes in the "fantasy category" it seems like fantasy is more popular broadly, too.

That's probably a fair assessment. What sci-fi does stick tends to be the sort with a lot of tech and weird science that might as well be magic anyway.

 

[Reynard]

That's probably a fair assessment. What sci-fi does stick tends to be the sort with a lot of tech and weird science that might as well be magic anyway.

I think that tracks with Dune's mini-renaissance.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Yes, that's true. However, besides Drizzt novels, the Shadowrun ones were the only ones I saw on the shelves of normal book stores at the time.
Also, I think I might personally not have started with Shadowrun if it wasn't for the Secrets of Power trilogy.

For me, it was the strong ad campaign running up to its release. But you can bet I read the fiction after that started being released.

I think there are two aspects to consider regarding novels. One is the actual sales of the novels themselves, but the other is their effect as advertisement and inspiration. Novels are often sold in other places than regular game stuff, and as such can reach new audiences, and they can also make GMs more likely to run games in that setting/game.

It's this weird thing - fiction based on RPGs is a relatively new form of writing, beholden not just to someone else's lore, but someone else's mechanics. TSR arguably set the mold there, and one can point to the Forgotten Realms presence in 5e, or the return of Dragonlance as ways it's still affecting the gaming industry.