D&D General Requesting permission to have something cool

[payn]

How is it not constructive? Who are you to say it isn't?

I have at minimum two other people who seem to agree it is constructive.

Final reply out of respect for you and the two folks, but this is not constructive at all.

I believe that for this reason the only reasonable solution to the balance problem is to have an entirely separate martial class that is essentially an "unchained" fighter, one that is properly balanced against the the stronger classes. My absolutely ideal solution is to bundle all martials into a sidekick category of classes and then make new proper martials to take their place. This allows people who want to play sidekicks to do so, while allowing people who don't care about that to play the real martials.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Final reply out of respect for you and the two folks, but this is not constructive at all.

Then ignore that point instead of derailing this thread with off-topic comments.

Edit: I actually agree with the previous commenter who found that bit slightly mean spirited, and removed it from the OP.

 

[Cadence]

I really want a 5e write up of Wesley Chu's War Artists from The Art of Prophecy and The Art of Destiny novels. Probably steals too much of the monk power source for canonical 5e, but the shadow stepping, lightning jumping, mind distracting, or wind walking sub-classes at least feels in the books like they'd be fun to play. And there are some more just weapon or shield focussed too.

And what happens to the martial who wants to take on a war artist without harnessing their inner power? Uhm, I assume it doesn't go well.

 

[Scribe]

I really want a 5e write up of Wesley Chu's War Artists from The Art of Prophecy and The Art of Destiny novels. Probably steals too much of the monk power source for canonical 5e, but the shadow stepping, lightning jumping, mind distracting, or wind walking sub-classes at least feels in the books like they'd be fun to play. And there are some more just weapon or shield focussed to.

And what happens to the martial who wants to take on a war artist without harnessing their inner power? Uhm, I assume it doesn't go well.

I really wish Wizards had pushed all subclasses to level 1, and I think this could be fixed without full classes.

 

[Krachek]

Martial choosing their abilities that increase in power and get more and more cool at each level have been already offered by Wotc.
4ed done it perfectly, but was a business flop.
So I guess we won’t see it again soon ( at least the next ten years), unless playtest, survey and feedback from the game change direction drasticly.
For 5ed the best we can hope for that is a supplement of new classes of mythic martial.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

I really want a write up of Wesley Chu's War Artists from The Art of Prophecy and The Art of Destiny for 5e. Probably steals too much of the monk power source for canonical 5e, but the shadow stepping, lightning jumping, mind warping, or wind walking sub-classes at least feels in the books like they'd be fun to play. And there are some more just weapon or shield focussed to.

And what happens to the martial who wants to take on a war artist without harnessing their inner power? Uhm, I assume it doesn't go well.

Yeah that's the kind of stuff I want to see at higher levels

I really wish Wizards had pushed all subclasses to level 1, and I think this could be fixed without full classes.

Subclasses at level 1 and a few more levels dedicated to subclass abilities would be great.

 

[Remathilis]

The way the system currently works is that casters are allowed to have impactful abilities while martials are not, and that even the addition of abilities at higher levels is not OK (according to some people), because it colours the player experience of the people who want fighters to remain "mundane".

You are correct. The fighter (and rogue, and to a lesser degree the barbarian) should NOT be mundane. They should be magical.

The fighter should never be "dude with a sword". The fighter should be "dude with supernatural ability who channels it into his sword". He should be born of the Gods, have dragon's blood in his veins or heir to the giant's legacy. He should breathe fire, sheath his weapon in energy, sprout wings and fly, and at 18th level have abilities that start "once per day, when you die..." The rogue should be walking through walls, disappearing Batman style during conversations, stealing hit points to provide him temp hp, or using supernatural aim to guarantee the next hit they make is a crit. The barbarian is riding this line already, lets push him over with rages that channel primal powers. There should be NO mundane subclasses and they should be looking at the bloodhunter and the monk for the level of supernatural ability all classes have bare minimum.

A cleric isn't a village priest. A rogue isn't a common pickpocket. A wizard isn't a local scribe. A fighter shouldn't be a town guard of infantryman. Mundanity is for NPCs.

 

[jgsugden]

A lot of the lines between realistic and unrealistic are subjective. I could describe things I've seen in (unedited) clips that most people would assume are impossible. To that end, I'd argue that the lines of what a human being could do if they were the epitome of human perfection is likely dang impressive. Hold your breath for 24 minutes? Lift 6000 lbs? Pull an 8 ton vehicle? Catch a cannonball? Leap 29 feet? Slow a heartbeat to 27 BPM? Eat my ex-wife's cooking?

We also have a lot of supernaturally (or magically) powerful weapon fighters. Barbarians. Kensai. Certain fighter and rogue subclasses (Psi Warrior, Eldritch Knights, Rune Knights, Echo Knight, Phantom, Soul Knife). Some bards and the Bladesinger Wizard. All effectively give us a relative of the fighter core with 'beyond human' abilities tossed onto it. These have lived right next door to the Fighter subclasses that seemn less supernatural/magical and people often choose a Fighter Subclass that doesn't seem magical for their subclass - the Battlemaster.

So, in the end - people seem comfortable with magic fighters sitting beside 'nonmagical' fighters, and we have quite a range of abilities we can give to non-magical fighters that are still 'realistic'. I don't see an issue.

 

[Clint_L]

So we have two different groups of people:

1: One group does not care that martials don't get anything cool, because if they got something cool it would make their play experience worse

2: Another group feels like the fact that martials don't get anything cool makes their gameplay experience worse, because there is nothing to look forward to as you level up.

That's a false dilemma. There are plenty of other options. What about people, like me, who think that high level martial characters have plenty of cool stuff? I think being able to action surge and do eight attacks for around 200 damage on each of the first two rounds of combat is, in fact, pretty cool. Being able to stealth up and murderize an enemy caster before they even know they are in combat is pretty cool. Being able to go toe to toe with a dragon fuelled only by your godlike strength and unquenchable rage is pretty cool. Plus, monks are okay, too.

Maybe there are a different two groups of people: folks who think high level martial characters (let's be real: they mean fighters) aren't cool unless they are basically Goku, and folks who enjoy game balance.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

That's a false dilemma. There are plenty of other options. What about people, like me, who think that high level martial characters have plenty of cool stuff? I think being able to action surge and do eight attacks for around 200 damage on each of the first two rounds of combat is, in fact, pretty cool. Being able to stealth up and murderize an enemy caster before they even know they are in combat is pretty cool. Being able to go toe to toe with a dragon fuelled only by your godlike strength and unquenchable rage is pretty cool. Plus, monks are okay, too.

Maybe there are a different two groups of people: folks who think high level martial characters (let's be real: they mean fighters) aren't cool unless they are basically Goku, and folks who enjoy game balance.

I agree that my two groups are not exhaustive, but it's certainly not a false dilemma. I should have perhaps have said something to make it clear that there are indeed more opinions than just those two.

Your damage example is a good example of something cool, but it's also functionally just an improvement of what they could already do. And in the case of the standard fighter it's also pretty much the only thing they can do (though there are definitely subclasses with cool abilities, like Echo Knight which I love)