D&D General Requesting permission to have something cool

[CreamCloud0]

Even in 4e there were more magic classes.

All the Arcane classes were magic.
All the Divine classes were magic.
All the Primal classes could be magic and the 4/5 were definitely so.
Psionic depends on whether you considered it magic .

So of the 4 main power sources, 74% were magic. 80% if you include Psionic.

For a game where people say "oh I like gritty fantasy" "I like low magic" and "I don't want magic items everywhere", WOTC keeps pumping out magic that gets bought up constantly in books.

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That's what I don't get.

Why don't people who say "I want non-supernatural martials" complain about lack of non-supernatural player, monster, and dungeon support from WOTC, Paizo, and other 3PP who keep grinding out magic magic magic magic magic?

Well people other than @Micah Sweet.

Probably because it’s on the other side of a player’s interaction, if i want to play a martial I’m constantly going to be dealing with those mechanics, and it’s not like there isn’t already a pretty decent array of nonmagic content to build adventures with, not to mention generally I think people are more inclined to let magical things exist as opposition in low-magic campaigns, when we ask for more martials and good mechanics for them we’re not asking for magic classes to be deleted, but when the magic crowd has 9 of the 13 options to pick from and extras to pick in the remaining 4 asking to expand the viability and choices for martials isn’t a huge request is it really? I don’t think grid filling is a thing that needs to happen but id at least like the option of performing any role as either caster or martial and be effective at it.

 

[nevin]

It's a matter of degree. Some people obviously allow 3PP or there wouldn't be any 3PP. However, some posters claim that no DMs allow 3PP. It's the typical "assume my personal experience is universal" syndrome.

What's funny is that at one point I floated the idea of using 3PP and my players rejected it. Admittedly it was to try taking the game in a different direction for a while (weird west or space fantasy), but still.

Well once you start to veer in any direction that feels more sci-fi or any other Genre for that matter the number of willing players drops drastically.

 

[TwoSix]

It's a matter of degree. Some people obviously allow 3PP or there wouldn't be any 3PP. However, some posters claim that no DMs allow 3PP. It's the typical "assume my personal experience is universal" syndrome.

What's funny is that at one point I floated the idea of using 3PP and my players rejected it. Admittedly it was to try taking the game in a different direction for a while (weird west or space fantasy), but still.

I'm moving into just shamelessly bribing people.

"You can play something from the PHB if you want, or you can play a much more interesting and better balanced option from my collection of curated homebrew and I'll also give a rare magic item to start with."

 

[Nefermandias]

Had to double check the url to make sure I wasn't in Reddit.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What game is this?

Many OSR games can be like this.

 

[Minigiant]

What game is this?

Apparently D&D. That's half the responses on these forums.

 

[Minigiant]

I think this is a particularly salient point. You can dislike a ton of stuff in the core book, and still have a satisfying experience playing the game as long as you play the stuff you like.

I mean, say you find 9 out of the 12 core classes just absolutely unplayable and won't touch them. You can still easily play for several years just using the 3 classes you do actually like.

The nice thing about asymmetric classes and subsystems is that if there's some you don't like, you can just avoid them. I've used this anecdote before; were casters in 3.5 overpowered to the point of making noncasters superfluous at mid-to-high levels? Absolutely. Does that mean I didn't enjoy 3.5? Nope, I loved 3.5. Why? Because I only played casters.

Indeed. The problem with 3.5 is that eventually every player was a caster and DMs couldn't stand the quantity of magic nonsense.

 

[Minigiant]

I have to admit, I have been VERY confused by the discussions related to 3PP.

It seems that the community demands these changes.
And yet, the community (in terms of DMs) refuses to allow 3PP with these changes.
Also, if no DMs allow 3PP, then there shouldn't be any 3PP, because why bother? It wouldn't sell.
....and yet, I feel like I've bought 3PP, and used it. And I know other people that do. And I've see tons of it for sale?

...I am so confuddled! It appears that there is a vast demand for products that people refuse to use, and, moreover, there is a vast supply of products that cannot be used in any games. I feel like economics has lied to me!

The 3pp products the DMs buy can be used.

The 3pp products the players buy cannot be used.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To be fair, my real exposure to 0-level rules has been Goodman Games (particularly the 3.5 era version) which was a meat grinder of farmers until you get a real PC . If you can use level 0 rules to tell a compelling narrative, more power to you.

The character funnel isn't for everyone, but I've always had fun with it. The more, "my PC is a unique hero" you tend to be, the less likely you are to enjoy the character funnel, although of course that isn't universal.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The 3pp products the DMs buy can be used.

The 3pp products the players buy cannot be used.

Huh. I missed that section of the rules.

Must have been buried in the Terms & Conditions of the DM's Guild, or something. Gotta read those "click throughs" more closely!

That said, I have a solution for you. Just buy the 3PP ... and give it to the DM. Then, since he owns it, he has to use it.

LAW FOR THE WIN!