D&D General Wishing Away The Adventure

[Reynard]

They have their simulacrum cast it.

If there is a spell that needs to go away...

 

[Mort]

Emphasis mine. That's is an incredibly patient DM and group of players. Unless by finished the campaign, you mean you ended the campaign after the first session of that nonsense.

I was a player in this one. The DM was WAY to patient.

 

[pemerton]

I would also say that most of the time teleport is the gameplay version of a McGuffin. If it's important to get someplace to stop something or the campaign ends, you will get there. If you don't want to spend time at the table on traveling, you won't. Maybe that means you hand-wave most of a two month journey or the DM just puts the location 2 days away instead of 2 months.

There is nothing in the fiction of campaigns that requires teleport unless the DM decides to make it required. Teleport is just an excuse to have fast travel so people can see different parts of the world.

Sure. And I am not saying that skipping content is automatically bad. It is a matter of taste what content one finds interesting.

Prompted by these posts - one solution seems to be to not play a railroad-y game.

Then we don't have things required by "the fiction"; nor content that gets "skipped".

 

[Mort]

They have their simulacrum cast it.

I was a bit off on the wish consequences (later post) but, yeah, having simulacrum essentially be a wish proxy is both a great idea - and seems like a total abuse.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Prompted by these posts - one solution seems to be to not play a railroad-y game.

Then we don't have things required by "the fiction"; nor content that gets "skipped".

It's not about railroads at all. Trivially bypassing potentially interesting stuff limits the possibility of emergent game play. We don't need to have specific end goal in mind for this to be an issue.

 

[Oofta]

If there is a spell that needs to go away...

I've never actually seen anyone use this spell, but if I did I would warn them that I rule that you cannot make a simulacrum of a simulacrum since it is only partially real. But this is one of the most vague and open to interpretation spells there is. Does it do anything unless verbally commanded to do so? Is it an independent thinking being? It obeys spoken commands, but can it truly show initiative or react to things not explicitly stated in it's verbal commands? It's as intelligent as the original creature but that doesn't mean it has free will or creativity. How far does the lack of ability to learn extend? Can it learn how to get to a new outpost on it's own or will it be confused if the street the original creature normally went down is no longer there? Who knows!

In any case I also don't have a problem banning a spell if I think it makes the game boring or don't fit the campaign we want to run*. Which is different from a spell being powerful. I just think that Simulacrum, depending on how you interpret it, is too open to Pun-Pun exploits.

*The only spells I currently effectively ban is teleportation. Raise dead and banishment are limited because of thematic reasons. Heat metal cast on armor only does damage. I've considered nerfing force cage because it's boring but it doesn't apply often.

 

[Mort]

If there is a spell that needs to go away...

Or just make it what the spell says - an actual illusion (maybe a good one), Not a spell casting super golem.

It's actually one of the few spells (I can think of) that's strictly BETTER than the 3e version (which only had 50% of the level and abilities of the creature duplicated)!

Heck, I think that nerf (50% of spellcasting and other abilities) would solve the problem nicely.

 

[Vaalingrade]

It's not about railroads at all. Trivially bypassing potentially interesting stuff limits the possibility of emergent game play. We don't need to have specific end goal in mind for this to be an issue.

Then put the interesting stuff at the teleport location.

 

[Mort]

Then put the interesting stuff at the teleport location.

Exactly.

The group has already had 12ish levels of the "the journey being the adventure..." Or started at a higher level BECAUSE they want a different experience.

 

[MarkB]

I've never actually seen anyone use this spell, but if I did I would warn them that I rule that you cannot make a simulacrum of a simulacrum since it is only partially real. But this is one of the most vague and open to interpretation spells there is. Does it do anything unless verbally commanded to do so? Is it an independent thinking being? It obeys spoken commands, but can it truly show initiative or react to things not explicitly stated in it's verbal commands? It's as intelligent as the original creature but that doesn't mean it has free will or creativity. How far does the lack of ability to learn extend? Can it learn how to get to a new outpost on it's own or will it be confused if the street the original creature normally went down is no longer there? Who knows!

I'm running into this myself at the moment. Rime of the Frostmaiden includes a quest with a simulacrum of a dead wizard who wants to use an ancient device to turn him from an illusory copy into a real creature, but he's hampered by his inability to learn meaning that he can't do any more research on the artifact than his original had done prior to casting him.

And I'm thinking, how do I play this in practice? He's going to be talking to the party and exchanging information. Does he just not remember the conversations, or does he know he spoke to them but not retain any new information they imparted to him?