D&D (2024) Speculation Welcome: What's Next for D&D?

[Retreater]

I really do think you’ve become so soured on things that you’re not even bothering to consider things reasonably. Like the opposite of rose-tinted spectacles. That your call but it reflects more on you than any of these projects.

True. I often have mud-stained glasses about the hobby. That said, in 5e terms, I've been excited about Level Up, Flee Mortals, the Historica Arcanum line by Metis Creative (City of Crescent, Empire of the Silk Road), and the pending delivery of OAR The Dark Tower.

I’m really enjoying Planescape. It has tons of content. Wonderful to see a product like Planescape be produced for us oldies. No wonder we don’t see Darksun or Birthright with this kind of attitude. Rpg books are cheap - very cheap for what you get. Really get annoyed seeing people claim they’re over-priced.

I'm just going off the SlyFlourish review. And I don't have a basis in Planescape at all - I was either homebrew or Ravenloft in 2E.
I don't think we'll see Dark Sun because WotC has said as much. But if WotC is reading my complaints online, I hope that's not a factor.

Deck arrived damaged? This is the first time I’ve seen someone genuinely describe their opinion of the content of a book based on how Amazon handled it. Come on Dude.

It's based on the original production of the product, not necessarily Amazon's fault. But even if the printing was perfect, I still wouldn't want it. The Deck of Many Things is too disruptive to introduce to a campaign. I've never seen it go well.

@Hussar has just described how great they found Candlekeep and how the adventures kept their players enagaged for ages. Why does having a variety of writers make the adventures bad? Weren’t you saying how Dungeon Magazine used to be brilliant? I’m certainly going to check it out after being put off by all the drama about the Bullywug episode.

You’ve missed out Golden Vault from your list, that is really interesting, original and well written. With adventures length about double that of Candlekeep.

I've perused both from my local library. Candlekeep seemed like "go to a site - have one encounter, and that's basically it." Very shallow adventures. Sort of like the Dungeon Magazine Side Treks - maybe 1-2 hours of play. Not bad for a periodical, but not the thing I want in a hardcover.
Golden Vault was sort of the opposite problem. The adventures were too complex and convoluted for their "drop in" value for an ongoing campaign. But, you know, not enough detail for a lengthy adventure. I don't want to plan out all the in-and-outs of a heist that's designed to last 1-2 sessions, read up on the positions of guards, motivations of NPCs, have the players puzzle and pull out their hair for something like that.
For me...
30ish pages - good, if it's something I can work with easily (site-based adventures).
5ish pages - not great. I can throw together a monster lair on my own.
I don't think a variety of authors is always bad. Yawning Portal, for example, is a pretty solid product (because the individual adventures are good) - however the overarching story and editing to tie them together is almost non-existent. And that's my problem with multiple authors. The editorial team at WotC has dropped the ball too many times (Frostmaiden) where adventures are just random encounter zones stitched together with the faintest idea of logic or theme. And when I get a 200+ page adventure that I plan to run for 6 months or more, I don't want a "monster of the week" format.

 

[Retreater]

You really wanting WotC to fail bad huh?

Kinda.
I think while it's connected to a corporation where the executives don't care about its employees, products, or fans we're going to get consistently bad content and the game will continue to become stagnant.
Who seems to care more? Paizo, Pinnacle, EN Publishing, Kobold Press, MCDM, Metis Creative, Chaosium, Darrington, Battlezoo/RfC, I could go on.
What we get from WotC/Hasbro is woefully inadequate. The quality is worse than what I've found from companies with 2 full-time employees. The writing, the art, the physical production values, the editing, the rules design, it's not up there with what an industry leader should be doing.
For example, please take a look at some of the art and production values of Metis Creative's City of Crescent sourcebook and adventure. Just Google it. And realize it's a small team that's passionate and inspired.
WotC products are what you get when there is no soul, no leadership, no inspiration, and no passion for delivering quality to fans. It's cost-cutting to deliver the biggest selling product at the lowest cost to please investors.

 

[cranberry]

Maybe by 2090 but I’ll be dead by then.

Just out of interest. Is there anything in the world you’ve seen to suggest that books are going to disappear? Cuz Kindle has been around for 15 years and we still buy billions of print books a year. With print book sales increasing in 2023.

Nothing I’ve seen would make me think you won’t be able to pop into your FLGS/Waterstones and buy a hardcover PHB in 20 years.

I also think the micro transactions discussion is scaremongering. Nobody gets on their high horse about paying $5 for a set of Devin Night Tokens. WotC is just an easy target.

I see them slowing fading away, not disappearing overnight. Collectable editions "covers" are already sold. I see that becoming a greater share of book sales.

I'm a grognard, and I haven't opened a physical TTRPG book in 3 years, or rolled physical dice. Yes, I have purchased .PDF's.

Micro transactions are a "natural" extension of moving to an all digital environment. And don't a least a couple of the Execs have video game backgrounds?...

I think micro transactions are inevitable. How aggressive WoTC will be with them in the long run is still up for debate.

And just because other companies do micro-transactions, doesn't mean WoTC should, or that it's ok.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Kinda.
I think while it's connected to a corporation where the executives don't care about its employees, products, or fans we're going to get consistently bad content and the game will continue to become stagnant.
Who seems to care more? Paizo, Pinnacle, EN Publishing, Kobold Press, MCDM, Metis Creative, Chaosium, Darrington, Battlezoo/RfC, I could go on.
What we get from WotC/Hasbro is woefully inadequate. The quality is worse than what I've found from companies with 2 full-time employees. The writing, the art, the physical production values, the editing, the rules design, it's not up there with what an industry leader should be doing.
For example, please take a look at some of the art and production values of Metis Creative's City of Crescent sourcebook and adventure. Just Google it. And realize it's a small team that's passionate and inspired.
WotC products are what you get when there is no soul, no leadership, no inspiration, and no passion for delivering quality to fans. It's cost-cutting to deliver the biggest selling product at the lowest cost to please investors.

Ive played several WotC 5E adventures and BAR NONE 3rd party stuff I've played has been better. From the art to the story. I honestly don't know how they keep coming in subpar in their own game when it comes to adventures which should be the bread and butter.

But i also know, most people don't look outside of official products and thus don't know any better. I suppose as long as they are having fun thats what counts

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Ive played several WotC 5E adventures and BAR NONE 3rd party stuff I've played has been better. From the art to the story. I honestly don't know how they keep coming in subpar in their own game when it comes to adventures which should be the bread and butter.

But i also know, most people don't look outside of official products and thus don't know any better. I suppose as long as they are having fun thats what counts

There is also a lot of bad 3PP stuff out their too (like some is really bad).

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

So, we are still waiting for the release date of the new-not-new edition, and some of Wizards of the Coast staff have been cut.

For those of you dice rollers who've taken more than my thirty-odd trips around the sun, what does this mean for the health of the game moving forward? Should we expect less content? Less yearly content releases? Less 3rd party publishers willing to use the OGL?

I don't except things to change much. I think it will pretty much continue like it has for the past 10 years on average. Not the height of 5e, but it will continue chugging forward a many years.

 

[DarkCrisis]

There is also a lot of bad 3PP stuff out their too (like some is really bad).

Obviously. There is far more of it. My point is, WotC should be making better stuff then their competitors, but it always seems like they are cutting corners or something.

Though I suppose when you are one company putting out 1 adventure every 4 months and then there is all the 3rd party stuff, some of which are stellar, you are going to get outshined. It's just #s, i guess.


I remember 3rd ed WotC put out the best stuff. And maybe 4 as well IDK but not in 5E.

 

[Remathilis]

Kinda.
I think while it's connected to a corporation where the executives don't care about its employees, products, or fans we're going to get consistently bad content and the game will continue to become stagnant.
Who seems to care more? Paizo, Pinnacle, EN Publishing, Kobold Press, MCDM, Metis Creative, Chaosium, Darrington, Battlezoo/RfC, I could go on.
What we get from WotC/Hasbro is woefully inadequate. The quality is worse than what I've found from companies with 2 full-time employees. The writing, the art, the physical production values, the editing, the rules design, it's not up there with what an industry leader should be doing.
For example, please take a look at some of the art and production values of Metis Creative's City of Crescent sourcebook and adventure. Just Google it. And realize it's a small team that's passionate and inspired.
WotC products are what you get when there is no soul, no leadership, no inspiration, and no passion for delivering quality to fans. It's cost-cutting to deliver the biggest selling product at the lowest cost to please investors.

I absolutely believe Crawford, Perkins etc deeply care about RPGs the same amount as Corvelle, Baur, or Mona. There is a desire to hate WotC because it is so successful now and people will root for the successful people to fail for no other reason than spite.

You know what happens when WotC fails? RPGs go underground again. WotC has PHBs in Walmart and Target, not Paizo or Kobold. Game stores close without Magic support. You get small pockets from around fantasy heartbreakers and the hobby slides back to being in the back of hobby stores and comic shops. People drop out of the hobby. People never join it. We go back to the 90s.

D&D is the gateway to many RPGs, and losing that gate hurts all of them. Maybe Paizo or someone carries that banner until they too are acquired and the cycle repeats, but I'd rather not chance it.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Corporations will do what corporations always try to do. Make money. C level executives love those fat bonuses.

They will probably milk the IP and D&D brand as much as they can to squeeze as much profit as they can.

So, more focus on subscription based SaaS and VTT. Online is where the money is and pandemic has speed up the online gaming aspect of ttrpgs.

Let's just take a look at average 5 people group that plays in real space. At best, everybody buys PHB, they all chip in for MM and DMG, maybe couple of books with some interesting character options, DM maybe forks out for adventure book or two. Realistically, one or two PHBs by group, MM, DMG, something like Tashas or Xanathars and thats it. D&D was always a cheap hobby, With 3 core books, some dices, pencils and paper, you could have fun for years. If you buy at full price, max cost is 5*50 for phb, 2*50 for dmg/mm, 2*50 for expansion books, 120 for 2-3 adventure books. Thats 570$ total. Realisticly, more like 300-350$ if you buy everything at full price. And you are good to go for next couple of years.

Now let's transfer that same group into virtual space. With just 9.99/month subscription, 5 people group spends per year 600$. And if you add paying for contetnt, that number can only go up.

That's a good way to marginalize your profits down to the very small, hardcore group that is willing to pay that. Corporations always forget that you have to "woo" your audience - It's not some kind of god-given right.

I always find it amusing when corporations and their proponents actually believe that they know what they're doing.

 

[Clint_L]

What we get from WotC/Hasbro is woefully inadequate. The quality is worse than what I've found from companies with 2 full-time employees.

And this is when I tune out from comments.

Disliking a product is one thing. But come on - it's so hard to have a reasonable discussion when everything becomes hyperbolic. For 30 bucks you can buy a lavishly produced, illustrated hardbound Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, etc.