How Visible To players Should The Rules Be?

[TwoSix]

In my role-playing group, whenever a PC's attack roll exactly hits the AC on an opponent, the DM will say 'Defender defends' to let everyone know that the opponent's armor has turned aside the PC's attack. Likewise, whenever the opponent's attack roll exactly hits a PC's AC, the player will say 'Defender Defends' for pretty much the same reason. My group has been using this term since I joined them back in 2021.

So once the DM says 'Defender Defends', the party will know that opponent's AC.

OK, yea, we definitely don't do that. Nothing wrong with it, of course, just not part of our group's play.

That's why a lot of our fights end without ever figuring out the enemy's exact AC. Unless the players manage to roll both exactly the AC, as well as AC - 1, the best you can do is define it as a range.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I do that too, on a miss. But I'm not sure where @Corinnguard is getting "They'll know what the AC is when the defender defends narration happens". It sounds like they maybe they narrate differently when the attack roll exactly hits the AC?

I'm guessing from context he uses that when the hit is very close, i.e. when you might assume some active defense is involved.

 

[soviet]

In my role-playing group, whenever a PC's attack roll exactly hits the AC on an opponent, the DM will say 'Defender defends' to let everyone know that the opponent's armor has turned aside the PC's attack. Likewise, whenever the opponent's attack roll exactly hits a PC's AC, the player will say 'Defender Defends' for pretty much the same reason. My group has been using this term since I joined them back in 2021.

So once the DM says 'Defender Defends', the party will know that opponent's AC.

This sounds like something that has no textual support whatsoever and is entirely a tradition of your group. It also changes the rules by increasing everyone's effective AC by one (an attack roll of exactly the AC would be a hit, not a 'defender defends' miss).

 

[Corinnguard]

This sounds like something that has no textual support whatsoever and is entirely a tradition of your group. It also changes the rules by increasing everyone's effective AC by one (an attack roll of exactly the AC would be a hit, not a 'defender defends' miss).

Yep, it's pretty much a tradition in my role-playing group. I'll have to ask around to see who came up with it and when. The group came together back in 2018, and had already gone thru three adventures before I joined it. But it does exactly as you said, it increases everyone's effective AC by one.

 

[TwoSix]

This sounds like something that has no textual support whatsoever and is entirely a tradition of your group. It also changes the rules by increasing everyone's effective AC by one (an attack roll of exactly the AC would be a hit, not a 'defender defends' miss).

It's still totally fine, of course. A global +1 to AC isn't going to hurt anything. The worst case scenario is that fights might take slightly longer.

 

[Reynard]

@hawkeyefan was saying that he would just tell the players what the runic circle was, because the players have a clear idea of what it is. How he would do it is justify it somehow via a PC with an appropriate class or background and have the information come out that way. My response was to show that there isn't really a "clear" thing it could or would be, since there are several options.

But surely the GM knows what it is. That's why I don't understand your response.why I'd the GM in your example waffling?

 

[soviet]

It's still totally fine, of course. A global +1 to AC isn't going to hurt anything. The worst case scenario is that fights might take slightly longer.

The context you have missed is that Corinnguard used his group's houserule as a universal standard by which players could figure out a monster's AC.

Figuring out the AC usually happens in the first round of combat as soon as the players make their rolls to hit an opponent, and the DM says one of three things- miss, defender defends or hit. Once the players hear defender defends from the DM, you know what the opponent's AC is.

 

[TwoSix]

The context you have missed is that Corinnguard used his group's houserule as a universal standard by which players could figure out a monster's AC.

Yes, I'm definitely the one who missed it, since I brought it up in the first place and asked about it, in posts #866 and #871.

 

[Corinnguard]

The context you have missed is that Corinnguard used his group's houserule as a universal standard by which players could figure out a monster's AC.

I wasn't looking to making it a universal standard for everyone else here to follow. I certainly don't expect you or anyone else to follow it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Though honestly, how hard it is to figure out a defense various considerably anyway. Its a little trickier with D&D-oids because of the range of results with a D20, but its still something you can sometimes figure out in a single round (or close enough); if one person misses with a 14 and another hits with a 16, the AC is either 15 or 16 and it doesn't take much to figure that out.