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D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Fighter
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
Asisreo
Patron Badass
The new fighter would have at most 4 unique weapons. Sword, spear, axe, and bow isn't an overwhelming number of weapons for a seasoned fighter.
Also, carrying capacity does still exist.
Chaosmancer
Legend
There are 9 masteries, You referred to a single one. Let's check the others.
- Cleave doesn't allow for more attacks, it is one extra attack from 1 to 17
- Flex damage doesn't increase from 1 to 17, it is just the single die step
- Graze doesn't do more damage, it is always ability mod from 1 to 17
- Nick doesn't allow for more attacks, it is just the single attack without a bonus action
- Sap, well disadvantage doesn't stack. I suppose you could spread out that disadvantage, but when surrounded by four enemies, I'll let you ruminate on the efficacy of spreading your attacks like that.
- Slow specifically prevents you from stacking it, so again, your best way to do so is to spread your attacks to multiple targets.
- Topple, you can't knock a target super-prone, so your only way of improving it is to spread your attacks to multiple targets
- Vex always just gives advantage on your next attack.
So... you literally picked the ONLY mastery that can stack with itself, and tried to say that was the standard for all of them. Where as five of them don't stack or improve at all, and three of them only "improve" by spreading your atacks to multiple targets, which is a tactically poor choice in nearly all instances.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Paladins absolutely can use all their options with a ranged attack. Divine Smite now works on weapon attacks. Barbarians can't, but they can use them with thrown weapons. Also Rangers can use all their options with a ranged attack, weird you didn't talk about them.
And, I'm sorry, was the standard "at least you are contributing" or was the standard "optimized"? Because you seem to be back peddling here.
Um.... oh wow... they limited barbarians to melee only? That's stupid. Still, the standard wasn't "can use all of their abilities" the standard was "at least contribute" are you saying a barbarian with a Longbow is not contributing to the fight against the dragon?
Yes they can.
Or we could extrapolate the other way, because Kensei are a thing, and there is no reason not to. But again, what was your standard here? Because you said "True, you're not at your best, maybe not even at your baseline, but you're at least contributing."
A monk using a bow to attack isn't at their best. They aren't at their baseline. But they are contributing. That was your standard.
Fighter's don't have maneuvers. That is Battlemasters, and we don't even know if they will keep them. Monks, Barbarians, Paladins and Rangers can also use all of their attacks with a bow, nothing prevents them. And Fighter's can only use mastery with a bow if they take mastery with that bow, and frankly, I will push for barbarians to be able to get that as well, because there is no reason not to have it.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Yeah, I think I like the idea of being able to put multiple masteries on a single weapon, or spread them out as desired. I think that is much cleaner.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Yeah, the more I think about it, giving all fighters manuevers and letting them have combat and non-combat manuevers really seems like a better way forward.
mellored
Legend
Each weapon is supposed to be different. And putting Vex on Dex weapons while cleave is on heavy ones makes it feel different.
Quick math, assuming 50% to-hit, and ignoring crits.
Graze: +4 damage, 50% of the time, means +2 on average.
Vex: 1d8+4 * (.75 chance to hit this attack * .25 increase in accuracy next attack) 0.1875 = +1.59375 damage
*you also don't get this in the first attack.
Flex: +1 damage, +.5, is +0.5
mellored
Legend
You have to hit to trigger cleave.
More attacks = more chances to trigger it.
+1 * 4 attacks =+4 damage
Still way too weak, but that's still scaling.
More attacks = more graze.
Yea. This one doesn't scale.
But you can use vex for the first attacks, and nick for your last one.
These requires a hit. So more attacks, more chances to hit (or fail a save).
More attacks, more advantage.
You litterally only have 1 that doesn't improve.
Also, you can switch easier at higher levels. So if you hit with cleave on your first attack, you can graze on the rest.
Chaosmancer
Legend
So? That's not "more control" that's like saying I've improved sneak attack by dual-wielding. I've made it more likely to activate sneak attack, but I haven't improved it at all.
Careful you don't hurt yourself stretching like that. Yes, by this logic my +1 magical blow dart gets more powerful when I get more attacks. But it doesn't, I just get more attacks.
No, it doesn't. Is this seriously your response to all of them? Just "but I made more attacks, and more attacks is more activations of the effect, therefore better effect!"
OKay, yeah, that was basically your entire argument. No. More attacks does not mean that the abilities you use on that attack have improved. Nothing has changed except you get more attacks. It is literally the same issue the fighter has always had.
mellored
Legend
I never said it was more control, or gave you a new ability.
I only said they scaled.
This is the Champion fighter. It's supposed to be simple to play, not change tactics as you gain levels.
It may not be exciting to you (or me), but it's the most popular class.
If you want to push further, shoot around corners, save allies from at the last second... check out the warlock.
Or perhaps the battle master will have high level maneuvers.
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