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AI is stealing writers’ words and jobs…
- Thread starter overgeeked
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We're veering a lot into politics (and perhaps we should follow trappedsliders proposal to move this discussion offsite) but is it true or are you doing a little hyperbole? We don't get news of Americans dying of famine or frozen to death in their tents, so I am sure there must be some kind of safety net, same with housing, or the news coverage isn't focusing on it in really lacking ways. Though we did get report of the US choosing not to have healthcare for all, that did pass the pond... and that would suffice to make the situation dire in some case.
But sure, the combination you're putting forward (no alternative employment path, no/little social safety net, and a prospective reduction in income) is certainly fostering the worst possible situation for persons affected with AI competition (not only artists, most "white collar" jobs will be impacted).
But sure, the combination you're putting forward (no alternative employment path, no/little social safety net, and a prospective reduction in income) is certainly fostering the worst possible situation for persons affected with AI competition (not only artists, most "white collar" jobs will be impacted).
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Scribe
Legend
Yeah thats the one.
Scribe
Legend
I'm in Canada, we have a social safety net. Would you like me to drive through downtown and get you some pictures of the homeless camps? Perhaps I could walk to the end of my block and pull the tarp back on the guys setting up near the park?
Problem is, we had the largest population increase in decades (not even close) fueled by massive immigration, we had warnings called out years ago on housing, ignored, even before the immigration boost, we have had a doctor shortage for an extremely long time, we have had governments either legalize (weed), or decriminalize (hard drugs) leading to increases in substance abuse, we have had years of increasing mental health concerns and a massive increase in prescription drugs for kids (no no, social media is fine, oh whats this 100%+ increase in mental illness diagnosis for girls? hmm weird..no no, its not at all social media!) and there is an increasing trend for suicide, or in Canada, medically assisted death, and as I noted, $200 (!!!!!!) is the line for some between losing their homes, missing payments, or whatever.
Now, lets throw 'AI disruption' into the mix, because I'm absolutely sure that the road we are on, is a winner.
Our society is circling the drain.
Ryujin
Legend
No, I'm saying that artists need to be compensated for their work. Period. Whatever comes of that, in the long run, is for the future to deal with.
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trappedslider
Legend
Show me where the evil corpos in this case broke the law instead of just being evil corpos? Are they using more than they are allowed to via permits? Because if we're going after corpos for being evil unethical corpos....then they need to get in line with the others.
"That is the problem with the American Dream. Makes everyone concerned for the day they're gonna be rich".- Aaron Sorkin also works.
How much and how do you plan to work it out? I've already posted that figuring that out can lead to only some corporations having the money for training/making generative AI instead of it currently being open source.
Let's use Realistic Vision V6.0 B1 as our example since I have the following info about it
Realistic Vision V6.0 (B2) Status (Updated: Jan 16, 2024):
- Training Images: +380 (B1: 3000)
- Training Steps: +76k (B1: 664k)
- Approximate percentage of completion: ~12%
And That's not counting the images used in the other models that were merged into this one.
So, how much would you pay out as to not make it prohibitively expensive to make the checkpoint?
(unless that IS your goal like some would do and want)
EDIT: And based on the poll did I some would like to make it so pricey that corpos give up on the tech.
EDIT II: TIL In 60's, 101 Dalmatians movie the people that draw lines from animated sketches were replaced by the Xerox machine.
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The deal with intellectual property was that in order to provide more art and technology, instead of having works kept secret, the state would grant a monopoly to an author, for a limited period of time, to profit from his creation, in exchange of said creation being published. So basically, you can get a patent protection but you need to disclose your patent, making the idea (and the execution) available for all, but affording a temporary protection to the execution. Same for art: the idea of the State intervening is based on the ultimate goal of making art more available for society's benefit, which was historically achieved through different means, and in recent centuries through intellectual property laws enforcing said monopoly. This was widely adopted because it did provide an incentive to create and publish art. On the other hand, there wasn't really an alternative way to enforce the goal, "more art available for all", outside of compensating humans for that. AI does change that, and the goal of making more art can be achieved by limiting the monopoly granted by states over artists' creations, which would reduce their incentive to create but increase the overall availability of art. There is no absolute rule that authors should be compensated (and for millenia stunning art pieces were created before copyright was a devised). I understand that, in your opinion, authors should be compensated for their work, but I am not certain it's an absolute truth. It really depends on the overall costs and benefits on allowing AI training for society. I can see pharmaceutical companies asking to be compensated for their research, but if training an AI on it can lead to the creation of thousands of new cures at inexpensive cost, I am pretty sure most countries's public opinion will go for it. For arts, the stakes aren't that great, so I can see it being more contested. Especially if governments start releasing IA models as a public service, so it's not "large corpo vs small artists".
We're speaking of months here. I am sure corporation are prepared to wait (or, more exactly, take the risk until the time is done and they can switch to another model and view that as a transient problem with emerging technology). They are certainly doing that already: they do strive to get exemption to copyright for their existing models, while pressing for "ethical guidelines" they know they'll be able to respect in the rather short term (and, as trappedslider said, ideally stiffling the competition in the same move).
I'd grant the artist's national pension plan the right to collectively manage IP with regard to AI training, and require profits made with selling AI models to be taxed at the rate of 5% to help fund the plan, improving artists' collective right to their pension. Since individual contribution is impossible to determine (and the administrative costs of sharing cents of revenue would exceed the revenue), I can see that as a good alternative. Like what is made for copying work for teaching purpose in universities, or collective right management for using music in radios.
Ryujin
Legend
If it can't be done without paying artists their going rate for the art they produce, based on their existing fee schedules, then AI is not financially viable a this point. Scrub all existing datasets and start fresh with what they can afford. If that's only open source, then that's all they can use. They jumped the gun and didn't think of the ramifications of what they were doing, so the cost is on their heads. Realistic? Maybe not, but it's the ethical way to go.
trappedslider
Legend
That basically only lets corporations be able to do AI and remember they are evil.
EDIT: At this point regarding things like AI art it's imo too late to rein it in as for the AI text stuff like chatgpt,bard etc that's going have to be done via the courts and the copyright office.
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