D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

Yaarel said:

To me it is obvious that high tier Fighters and Rogues are magical. But the how − the explanation − matters.

I feel the solution is, the default setting (FR) can define the high tiers themselves as "tapping into magic".

In the case of the Martial power source, it is possible that the "ki", the part of the soul that emanates the bodily aura, is able to achieve the Extraordinary effects. This kind of ki magic is innate and has nothing to do with the Weave.

Meanwhile, the low tiers − levels 1 thru 4 and 5 thru 8 − are strictly "mundane" and refer to reallife to adjudicate narrative scenarios.

At the higher tiers, it is more helpful to refer to superhero comicbooks and mythic tropes to adjudicate narrative scenarios.

Click to expand...

W'rkncacnter said:

ok, look, i get claiming he's not supernatural, but claiming he's not extraordinary is just silly (especially since being extraordinary should be perfectly acceptable for high level characters regardless of whether they're magic or not).

Click to expand...

Gammadoodler said:

If such a narrative truly is needed (and I'm not convinced that it is), then beneficial mutation could also serve as such a justification.

After all, a significant portion of the adventuring experience is direct exposure to a wide variety of supernatural environments, creatures, and hazards.

Wouldn't be that difficult to make the case that some combination of those forces caused a supernatural change for that PC.

Click to expand...

Crimson Longinus said:

Fiction where metaphysics of all those different IPs would exist at once would be an utter mess. D&D doesn't need to do that, it shouldn't try to do that. They need to choose how things work in their IP, and coherently represent that.

Click to expand...

Yaarel said:

The narrative is necessary because there needs to be a clear way to disconnect the "reallife" mundane low tiers (levels 1 thru 4 and 5 thru 8) from the superhero high tiers. These are different genres. By a certain tier, the medievalesque constraints become irrelevant. "Castle walls? Everyone fly!" And so on.

How Tolkien and Superman coexist in the same setting requires a thoughtful explanation

Click to expand...

Gammadoodler said:

I can see why such a thing could be useful for a setting. I don't see why it would be necessary for the game.

All the game needs to care about is "what kinds of things should PCs be able to do and when"

Providing setting justification gives no little or no actionable information to the player, and establishes contrary evidence to any alternative setting justifications a GM might choose to provide.

It's wasted effort. What people need to know is that Tolkien and Superman do exist in the setting. Individual tables are perfectly capable of filling in why, if that's even a priority for them.

Click to expand...

Yaarel said:

Sure, the 5e game engine and core rules strive to be setting-neutral.

But there is a default setting, Forgotten Realms, with as light a touch as possible. The classes need examples that make sense within this setting. The Apprentice tier soldier fresh from a war before level 1 corresponds more to reallife. The Legend tier Fighter is something else − what in the Forgotten Realms makes this superhero possible?

Click to expand...

Gammadoodler said:

I really don't see the value in tying class mechanics to the Forgotten Realms in any specific way in the PHB.

Leave the setting specifics to the setting books. That's what they're there for.

If we do want showcase something, I'd showcase multiple examples of legendary warriors from differing settings and specifically highlight that while their capabilities may be similar, their sources of power can vary wildly, and advise the player that they can work out the specifics with their GM.

Click to expand...

Yaarel said:

I agree about the setting books doing the heavy lifting for a specific setting.

At the same time.
• Great rules without a good setting fail to sell well.
• A great setting without good rules fails to sell well.

The Players Handbook needs both rules and a setting.

Of course I want the core rules to be as setting-neutral as possible. But the 2024 Players Handbook still needs to give examples with flavors that imply a default setting, namely Forgotten Realms.

Since the Players Handbook is more than merely background (level zero) and levels 1 thru 8, the setting needs to make sense of how different the high tiers are. Levels 9-12, 13-16, and 17-20 are full-on superheroes. The class description needs to make this make sense.

Click to expand...