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D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
So while you say it is impossible to make one subclass that does justice to all of those 4 concepts, which I not once proposed (remember: I said I add a fighting style as a start), I say that it is impossible to make a class that does justice to all of your warlord archetype (which true warlod fans seem to agree with because they can't agree how to do a real warlord class).
Its not impossible, its just not ideal. Its being weighed down with Fighter stuff that isn't essential to the Warlord concept. The Warlord shouldn't have everything from the base Fighter chasis, and having that also limits its overall power and potential.

Homebrewers have done it fine, just like they have with psionics. Making a true Warlord has been done multiple times. Its just, WotC won't.
 

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You proved my point.You are suggesting a warlord within the fighter.
That is what I said for the last posts. I think you did prove my point.
Because multiple designers have created a homebrewed Warlord class that has those main archetypes as it's subclasses. It's an agreed upon concept among most Warlord fans.
I don't know most if them... although maybe I do. How many are there?
2 big homebrewers did it. ENWorld Publishing did it. MCDM is doing it. Paizo is doing it.
I don't care what 3rd parties do. I don't like the ENworld one too much.
WOTC just wont do it as they are anti-new-classes and anti-subsystems.
Yeh, they are evil.
This purely a WOTC problem. They won't dedicate real page space to a well made subsystem except for magic spells, magic items, and feats unless absolutely forced (see Artificer Infusions).
Because often subsystems are annyoingly complex and bring a system to a halt. They do well being conservative there.
 

Its not impossible, its just not ideal. Its being weighed down with Fighter stuff that isn't essential to the Warlord concept. The Warlord shouldn't have everything from the base Fighter chasis, and having that also limits its overall power and potential.
I don't think it is weighted down woth fighter stuff. It is enhanced by it.
Homebrewers have done it fine, just like they have with psionics. Making a true Warlord has been done multiple times. Its just, WotC won't.
Yeah. Multiple true warlords... see the problem?
 

pawsplay

Hero
You can already play a Battle Master Fighter with the Inspiring Leader feat. What's left?

Honestly, I find the idea of a character whose main focus is to grant other people free movement and attacks pretty tedious.

The whole concept is somewhat antithetical to the 5e core design, which is essentially that everyone has an "I attack," option, with the exception of maybe certain clerics.
 

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
I don't think it is weighted down woth fighter stuff. It is enhanced by it.
Anything a character gets has to be balanced against what other subclasses get

All that Fighter stuff is making this pseudo-warlord focus too much on being good at combat and not the other side of the warlord thing. If folks were okay with that, then they'd be okay with Battlemaster and not have been saying for 5E's lifespan that Battlemaster is too Fighter-focused. Otherwise, the subclass is going to be unbalanced as heck ala Twilight Cleric, or that time wizards tried to steal metamagic. You can see a big example of this failing with those test sub-classes in UA that didn't give all the classes their full benefit, those were not designed properly and folks would have lost out

Yeah. Multiple true warlords... see the problem?
If multiple versions of classes existing is grounds for them being bad, then you're saying the WotC druid, sorcerer and warlock should all be removed, because there's numerous versions out there changing those up. Like, two warlords? Yeah that's nothing, there's like a good 4 iterations of the sorcerer out and about, and before we even get to the like. 10 witch classes out there.

You can already play a Battle Master Fighter with the Inspiring Leader feat. What's left?
Not having all of the fighter's stuff and having that class debt being given to stuff that helps the party. Kibbles and Laser both got it fine and their Warlords are very distinct from the Battlemaster.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
You can already play a Battle Master Fighter with the Inspiring Leader feat. What's left?

Honestly, I find the idea of a character whose main focus is to grant other people free movement and attacks pretty tedious.

The whole concept is somewhat antithetical to the 5e core design, which is essentially that everyone has an "I attack," option, with the exception of maybe certain clerics.
That's not the point of the Warlord archetype. That's only for the Lazylord, the derivative build of the archeytpe.

The 4E Warlord has most of the Leader's role capability.
  • Buffing
    • Attack Rolls
    • Damage Rolls
    • AC
    • Saving throws
    • Initiative
    • Skills
  • Granting
    • Attacks
    • Movement
    • Withdraw/Disengage
    • Item Interaction
  • Healing
    • HP
    • THP
    • Minor conditions
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
That is what I said for the last posts. I think you did prove my point.
That's my point.

90% of Warlord fans agree on design of a Warlord class.
90% of Warlord fans disagree on design of a Warlord subclass.

EDIT:

If you make a playtest of a Warlord class, 90% of your constructive feedback will be the same.
If you make a playtest of a Warlord subclass, 20% of your constructive feedback will be the same.
 

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
So, Bard then.
And that just runs into the debt from the bard side of things, though it is closer this way. But magical secrets and stuff like that? That's not useful for you or your concept and ties into the Bard fantasy which is irrelevant to the concept being played at the table. You're still getting another class's debt in the way of your character concept.

Let's also not forget, this is D&D, the game that has had multiple semi-official competing witch classes in early edition and decided that 'thief', 'assassin' and 'acrobat' were too specific so there also needed to be 'jester' and 'yakuza' added as whole seperate things
 

Let's remember the main keys to design a new class in 5ed.

- Interesting concept. A paladin-like class with a different gameplay syste is not good to be sold.

- Right power balance, of course.

- Fun and simple gameplay. Now in 5ed this is very important. The class has to be easy to be understood by new players. If the class is only a list of buffs and nerfing enemies then it could be useful, but not fun.

A warlord in 5ed can't be a simple walking allies-buffer. A warlord should be like a "monster trainer" class, but the "monster allies" are troopers. I have suggested the idea from Pathfinder, troop/squad as a monster subtype, working like crawl monster subtype, for a faster fight in mass battles.

Mage Hand Press published the Captain Class

images


In the SRD 5ed you can find the warlord class by Schwalb Entertaiment.

264030.png
 

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