World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

Cheezehog said:

I dug the podcast! Balazaar was awesome. I agreed with your arguement about alignment and its "reality."

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Thank you! It was fun to do, and a little slice of our gaming history, now set in aspic.

I wonder what we (or others) will make of it in 10 years time, or 50?

Our oldest online RPG recordings are now heading towards five years old.

Paul

I found early on that playing the WLD completely vanilla led to my players being able to predict the dungeon too much and take advantage of weaknesses that shouldnt be there (metagame), and also on the other hand for those that refuse to metagame led to inappropriate challenges and/or lack of interest.

I lowered the XP values to half as suggested in the beginning, but eventually lifted that. A 1-20 campaign is long enough as is. So, while still allowing the lesser regions to be lesser in power I adjusted the entire dungeon upwards as the party advanced to account for the number of players and their slightly higher level. Consequently I also had to add treasure.

At the end of N the players were somewhere between 18th and 20th level. A vanilla Invistiis, Vinarra, Kasteoficiss (sp) and even World Eater would have been push-overs at that point. Its a simple case of 1 vs 6, and the 1 has very little treasure compared to the 6.

Anyhow, as I look forward to the next adventure I will always be able to remember the one campaign that took adventurers from lowly to legendary, and the players that survived will be able to legitimately claim to have built, played and paid the dues for a true epic character.

This is was really my goal for the WLD in the first place in light of so many previous campaigns that died at 10th level or 5th or 12th with no closure, just a slow death due to lack of interest.

Let these names go down in WLD history:

Trielinil Balvavrae - Drow Paladin of Camazotz (19th) and evil cohort Aiesha the Succubi, Blackguard of Vecna (16th) Survivor of the entire World's Largest Dungeon
Almirec - Supreme Thunder Shaman of Death - Goblin Mystic Theurge of Zeus (20th) Survivor of the entire World's Largest Dungeon
Gurzga - Orc Eye of Grumsh (20th) Survivor of the World's Largest Dungeon
Wren - Drow Master Warlock (19th) and familiar Nimbus the Dragon Survivor of the World's Largest Dungeon
Dale of Rome - Humble Human Thaumaturgist of Heironeous (19th) Survivor of the World's Largest Dungeon
Bone Shaker - Half-Ord Grand Druid of Nature (20th) Survivor of the World's Largest Dungeon
Shakar - Changeling Warshaper (20th) Survivor of the World's Largest Dungeon
and finally:
Ikriit Grandcaster the Artificer, NPC supplier of Adventuring Arms and Equipment (18th) Survivor of the World's Largest Dungeon

Hail to the Survivors of Lansing's World's Largest Dungeon!! May Tales Of Their Glory Be Told Throughout The Multiverse!!

I tried starting up WLD as a pickup game, but that was obviously not the best way to run it!

After I'm done with Rappan Athuk, WLD will be my campaign of choice.

One thought I had: how would Neogi work in Region A as the big badguys who "open up" the WLD to the world? Something like "a few Neogi crash land their spelljammer ship outside of the WLD and head in, sensing the evil they can unleash onto the world." Neogi could then either (a) be behind the portal and fiendish creatures in Region A, and/or (b) provide a continuous enemy throughout the entire WLD (possibly making some kind of epic level Neogi BBEG once the group navigates through the WLD).

Note: I don't mind a little extra work...and I don't expect my group to hit every single region/room in the WLD.

Congrats Traevanon! That's fantastic. Yet another veteran can have bragging rights of completing this bad boy. You have joined a very select club.

Neuronphaser - you're going from Rappan Athuk to WLD? Holy crap. I am in awe of your dungeon crawling fortitude!

Hussar said:

Congrats Traevanon! That's fantastic. Yet another veteran can have bragging rights of completing this bad boy. You have joined a very select club.

Neuronphaser - you're going from Rappan Athuk to WLD? Holy crap. I am in awe of your dungeon crawling fortitude!

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I did WoD for like 12 years or more, played 2nd edition in a very Planescape-y, free-form kinda way for years. Jumped on 3E with Scarred Lands.

I've never had a good background in dungeon crawls, so RA and WLD are my first.

Both myself and my players enjoy it...maybe as we get older, we enjoy the idea of "killing it and taking it's phat lootz" more. I just like not having to work too hard on stories and stuff...thanks to jim pinto and others for doing that work for me (and doing it exceptionally well, might I add)!

P.S. One of my players found out about this post, and is already fired up for WLD! He heard "800 page dungeon" and said "Awesome! Let's do it!"

Hoo boy. My group has a problem. It's probably already covered earlier in this thread, but I don't have the time before next session to read over 2100 posts.

Let's start with the characters I've had so far so I can use names instead of pronoun:
Lathorian - human scout
Elesse - human cleric of Pelor
Rukia - human ninja, cousin of Lancaster
Toby - spellscale warmage
Lancaster - human fighter, cousin of Rukia (who was played by the same person as...)
Soren - human cleric of Nerule
two as-yet unnamed replacement characters (they haven't seen game time yet)

I as DM made two or three (depending on how you're counting) errors in judgment. To start off, I used a dream sequence for each PC to get them to the side of the mountain. Depending on their deity of choice, the message was different. Elesse got a message about a massive undead problem, Rukia and Lancaster got a message about a rising evil, and so on. The problem lay with Toby and Lathorian, who weren't religious. I gave them a vague message of atonement since both had checkered pasts. It was supposed to be from St. Cuthbert, but he remained hidden to the players' subconsciouses. Following the dream, they woke, finding themselves summoned to the side of the mountain in the beginning of the campaign.

Elesse immediately began on her mission as it was appointed to her, as well a cleric probably should. The two cousins were apprehensive and essentially forgot(?) that they were there to quell a threat. The two non-religious characters, realizing the only way out of the situation was to dive headfirst into it, but only to get themselves out again; they are very exit-oriented PCs who completely ignored that they were sent there to learn a lesson about the nature of evil.

In my defense, I used this opening once before to quite satisfactory results. I didn't anticipate this from this group at all.

Lancaster got himself killed in the first session. Rukia went insane with revenge, which allowed Soren (Lancaster's player's new PC) to influence her for ill quite easily.

That, coupled with the fact that the two "lets just find our way out of here" characters are played by the two people with the strongest personalities, has led the group into Region B as first-level characters, now second-level characters. They instigated a war with the goblin tribe in the southwestern corner (the one led by a doppelganger and Hammerfist--I'm at work or I'd use the actual tribe name); while the goblin groups were pretty easily dispatched, Hammerfist killed Lathorian and Rukia utterly and could have killed Soren as well if I had bothered to use his Cleave and Improved Sunder feats.

So, now we only have two original characters remaining: Elesse and Toby.

What this comes down to is a) I could have brought the players in better, b) I didn't Rule Zero the doors between regions inoperable until the party completed a certain percentage of the current region, and c) I didn't give them a compelling reason to stay in Region A until they were better equipped to handle the situation.

So, I need ideas. One idea I had was to revisit the dream sequence for Elesse, where Pelor indicates that he is not happy about her having skipped over the cause of the threat in Region A, and if she doesn't go back and do something about it, her powers will start fading to show her that he means business. Because the party would then be left without a healer if she went off on her own, and because one of the new PCs is a knight, they may decide that Region A is better than Region B without someone to heal them. Another idea I had was to bring in the new characters by having them run for refuge to the room the three living PCs are in, followed by a swarm of fiendish monsters now overflowing from Region A (as they never found and closed the portal, and indications that the problem will only get worse until and unless they take care of the situation. (Where they are on the map, it would be easy enough to have the "flood" come from the east and push them back into Region A. The problem is, they haven't run as a group from anything I've thrown at them so far.)

Yeah. Suggestions? If you need more info, just say the word.

I'm a big fan of keeping things simple. My group managed to wander into a region that was too high level for them and the combination of my maniacal giggling and the hydra they ran into convinced them they should maybe head back.

I take it your _players_ either aren't smart enough (I mean that in the nicest possible way ), or refuse to metagame enough to backtrack to an area where they aren't over their head?

If it's the metagaming angle, I'd just point out to them that it's not metagaming for their characters to strategically retreat and build up their strength enough to press onwards. Even hard headed escape oriented characters should eventually realize that they can't necessarily proceed in a straight line because their may be obstacles in their path that they can't overcome.

Also, how do they even know they are moving towards the exit? Couldn't the exit be back in Region A for all they know? My group is pretty escape oriented as well, but they are pretty meticulosly mapping and exploring everywhere because they are afraid of missing the exit.

If you need a GM "voice" to get some of this across, you could use Bartleby the halfling who wanders in Region B. Have him talk some sense in them. Hey may even have heard about the weak adventuring group that recently got slaughtered by the goblins. He also probably knows about alot of the traps in the region that you're group is probably equally unprepared for.

I agree with the above. Bartleby's a good start, you could also dump a Lantern Archon in their laps who brings the message straight from Pelor (or insert any other deity here).

A good reason to go back to Region A: the room with the "eternal" source of water (25 or something like that...? With the Ogre, if I remember right). If the PCs are low on food and supplies, that's a great place to hole up, and the Lantern Archon and/or Bartleby might know of it.

It might be pushing the issue hard, but making rations/water an issue at low levels increases the "survival horror" feel of Region A and B. Worrying about your enemies is one thing...but worrying about your next meal PLUS enemies can be a big deal. Just to make it hit home, have a goblin dump alchemist's fire on [insert PC carrying all the rations/water jugs/etc.] and have those items burn off. Now that the PCs are sans food, give 'em a few Fort saves using the Starvation/Thirst rules in the DMG.

If the PCs don't get the hint, make goblins eat things that aren't very nutritional or tasty to other humanoids. Maybe they have to pass a Fort/Will DC 17 check just to put it in their mouths. A few failed saves later and they'll be scrambling back to find food and water in some place where they don't have goblins with alchemist's fire lobbing grenade-like projectiles at their food stores.

As much as I hate metagaming, I do it for the transition between regions. In part this is because I'm using Virtual Table software and need to bring up a whole new map when they hit the end of the one they are currently in. The other part is to stop them from getting in over their head.

Now... while I let them know they are getting to a new area I don't refuse to let them in if that is what they want to do. Its their choice at that point.


Maybe a dream segment showing the portal with the fiendish creatures coming out of it? Oh... and then a pull back showing a top down view of the whole region A with darkness spreading out from the portal and covering the whole region, then pull back further and it covers the whole of the dungeon and then further and it starts to spread out of the dungeon and cover the world. The first part will give them a very good idea of where to look for the portal as well. Oh!! And as the view pulls back to show the whole dungeon there can be some parts that glow with white light... The North part of Region E and the South part of region G where the remaining Garrison members are. The darkness pauses there before finally overwhelming the light and moving on.

After that nights rest they get hit by the wave of critters.

The needing to run thing might have to be learned over time. My group is now not afraid to run when things look bad. Though they do have issues with successfully disengaging and getting everyone moving. One person always tries to hold the bad guys up for a round or two and the party refuses to leave them there alone to do it.

Good luck!

rv

There are some great ideas here, thanks. This is probably going to get kind of long--three replies to respond to.

raynbow said:

I take it your _players_ either aren't smart enough (I mean that in the nicest possible way ), or refuse to metagame enough to backtrack to an area where they aren't over their head?

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They're the "we don't ever metagame" type of crowd. I'm perfectly fine with that, but the people know they're in over their heads and can't figure out what to do about it and still stay in character. Also, they stepped into Region E just long enough to get one of the players negative from that ridiculous 8d6 fireball trap in the hall of portraits (or whatever it's called). They didn't stick around too long, and Rukia's player calls that the "higher-level area". That makes me think she doesn't realize that B is just as high as E. That kind of makes sense if you come from the perspective that E is later in the alphabet, so it's probably higher.

Bartleby is an option, but one I'm a bit reluctant to use so soon because he has a use later. I'll have to think about it.

neuronphaser said:

A good reason to go back to Region A: the room with the "eternal" source of water (25 or something like that...? With the Ogre, if I remember right). If the PCs are low on food and supplies, that's a great place to hole up, and the Lantern Archon and/or Bartleby might know of it.

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The party has been to the Bragdor room already. It's one of the few rooms they did enter in Region A, and actually where the whole mess with Rukia wanting to avenge Lancaster's death came from--she tumbled behind Lancaster and he ended up taking the first blow in battle, which just happened to lay him out, perfectly dead at -10 hp.

Anyway, I hate keeping track of food and water, so I set the dungeon in a celestially-created timeless demiplane. Time there is stopped, so the party feels no need to eat or drink, and when they get back out, they will appear not to have been gone at all to the people around them. So, using food and drink as a lever now isn't going to work. Good idea, though.

rvalle said:

As much as I hate metagaming, I do it for the transition between regions. In part this is because I'm using Virtual Table software and need to bring up a whole new map when they hit the end of the one they are currently in. The other part is to stop them from getting in over their head.

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They all get player maps for the region they're in. It saves me the trouble of describing every frelling corner and hallway and keeps them from traveling the same ground 15 times because either they can't find a door or I'm not explaining something well enough. So the players know full well they're not in Kansas anymore.

The dream sequence you mentioned is really cool. I'll have to tailor it a bit for each of the remaining characters (especially Soren...would he mind that evil is going to overflow everything?), but it's a great start.