D&D 4E 4e questions after a playtest

We played Raiders of Oakhurst Reloaded, and it was very fun for all. However, questions arose, simple ones at that:

1) Firing/casting spells into melee. We collectively agreed on the usual -4 to hit if the ranger shot into melee or casters wanted to strike targets in melee. Is there any official rules on this?

2) How to escape combat without opportunity attacks? Basically, is "shifting" a minor action or something else? Can a combatant attack (standard action), shift and then move away, fearing no repercussions?

3) Our ranger player quickly figured out that the cleric's healing spell was an encounter power at will. He argued that out of combat, there would be no need to spend healing surges, as the cleric could just keep tossing spells at will. We decided that he could only use it in combat (calling the powers of the gods to aid them etc.), which led to some very bad borderline cringe-worthy situations of "uhm, there's one enemy left, better heal us up now with that spell of yours.". I'm sure we somehow misunderstood all this? Right?

4) We played the entire "reloaded" adventure going on curse/quarry/marks overriding each other, so we obviously got that wrong. That said, the party only had trouble at the dragon, where they were really challenged, as even without his quarry the ranger was untouchable in being the max damage dealer, and the warlock seemed to hit pretty nicely too. The proverbial "stacking dots" works in 4e I can see now from reading other threads, or did we play it right?

5) Will shifting an enemy around like some powers can, provoke opportunity attacks from whatever that enemy is fighting? By the very definition of the shift, I would say no, but from a "what the hell is shifting this guy one square good for?" line of thinking, I'd say yes. Barring lava pools or cliffs, whats the point of shifting anyone 1 square elsewise?

6) What old skills falls under "Athletics" and what falls under "Acrobatics" in the new skill system?

Other comments:

We played without minis/battlemap, because we hate it (except 1 of the 6 players), and it went fine. Only thing we drew and rearranged on a whiteboard, was the dragon fight.

Everyone liked 4e, and we all agreed that marks, surges and ongoing damage is something we will get the hang of eventually, but right now, it seems strange still.

There is a LOT of tiny +1/+2 modifiers stacking onto each other as buffs very often, and it does get confusing for the players.

I didn't let the dragon use darkness, as that would have been... the end. Also, we missed the wording on the paladin mark, so she took 8 damage several times in a round. Without though, I think the party would have bitten the dust, so it was all good, and the fight was very epic still.

Adventure was fun, and material in the pdf top notch! Nice work everyone, and thanks a lot!

If I'm not ninja'd:

1) No penalty. Foes provide cover, but alies don't. It's assumed the party trains at working together and getting out of each other's way.

2) Shfting is a MOVE action. You could shift out of a threatened area and then move away.

3) He can use it out of combat but it still burns surges. (And he needs to rest 5 min after using it)

4) The Striker's job is to dish out the damage.

5) Most powers don't shift, they SLIDE, but either way, forced movement does not provoke.

6) Balance & Tumble are acrobatics, while Climb, Jump, Swim are Athletics

Hope that helps!

Fitz

As Fitz said, just to further clarify 2. Use your move action to shift (one square, no OA) then your standard action to move away.
Also with the little modifiers, they go a long way in 4E with the slow rate of increase- 1/2 per level.
And finally, thanks for pointing out that you do not need minis/battlemaps for 4E. I agree, and have never used them before, but it is nice to hear it again. I admit that we are going to minis just cos we like the look and I can now afford them

ParagonofVirtue said:

4) We played the entire "reloaded" adventure going on curse/quarry/marks overriding each other, so we obviously got that wrong. That said, the party only had trouble at the dragon, where they were really challenged, as even without his quarry the ranger was untouchable in being the max damage dealer, and the warlock seemed to hit pretty nicely too. The proverbial "stacking dots" works in 4e I can see now from reading other threads, or did we play it right?

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Just a note: Only marks don't stack. The Hunter's Quarry is not a mark, neither is the Warlock's Curse.

Rangers are fairly good at being the best damage dealers, its what they do.

To the best of my knowledge:

ParagonofVirtue said:

1) Firing/casting spells into melee. We collectively agreed on the usual -4 to hit if the ranger shot into melee or casters wanted to strike targets in melee. Is there any official rules on this?

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No penalty for firing into melee. Your allies do not provide cover to your enemies, too.

2) How to escape combat without opportunity attacks? Basically, is "shifting" a minor action or something else? Can a combatant attack (standard action), shift and then move away, fearing no repercussions?

Click to expand...

A shift is a move action, so you could attack and then shift away, but unless you had another move action available (from an action point, for example) you can't move further.

3) Our ranger player quickly figured out that the cleric's healing spell was an encounter power at will. He argued that out of combat, there would be no need to spend healing surges, as the cleric could just keep tossing spells at will. We decided that he could only use it in combat (calling the powers of the gods to aid them etc.), which led to some very bad borderline cringe-worthy situations of "uhm, there's one enemy left, better heal us up now with that spell of yours.". I'm sure we somehow misunderstood all this? Right?

Click to expand...

We played it that Healing Word could be used out of combat. Each use of Healing Word spends one of the target's healing surges, though, so it isn't unlimited healing.

4) We played the entire "reloaded" adventure going on curse/quarry/marks overriding each other, so we obviously got that wrong. That said, the party only had trouble at the dragon, where they were really challenged, as even without his quarry the ranger was untouchable in being the max damage dealer, and the warlock seemed to hit pretty nicely too. The proverbial "stacking dots" works in 4e I can see now from reading other threads, or did we play it right?

Click to expand...

The paladin's mark and the fighter's mark overwrite each other, but otherwise, I think curse, quarry and mark can apply to the same target.

5) Will shifting an enemy around like some powers can, provoke opportunity attacks from whatever that enemy is fighting? By the very definition of the shift, I would say no, but from a "what the hell is shifting this guy one square good for?" line of thinking, I'd say yes. Barring lava pools or cliffs, whats the point of shifting anyone 1 square elsewise?

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Sliding, pushing and pulling do not provoke attacks of opportunity, but can still be useful for disrupting your enemies' flanks and other formations, and packing them close together for an area of effect power.

6) What old skills falls under "Athletics" and what falls under "Acrobatics" in the new skill system?

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Athletics: Climb, Jump, Swim. Acrobatics: Balance, Escape Artist, Tumble.

Thanks for the swift replies!

The lack of -4 would have made every encounter soooo much easier for the player's, and they already pretty much burned through everything with little trouble. We had one encounter (skeletons in the tomb) where a player was at 0 hit points, and 2 went down on negatives on the dragon. Thats it, and it seems they were handicapped badly

One more question btw:

7) Say the warlock or wizard is being attacked by a melee combatant, and they want to cast a spell, does this still provoke opportunity attacks like in 3x?

Lots of little questions... I think most all of them are mentioned in the PHB lite. I'll answer to the best of my recollection.

1) There is no firing into melee penalty anymore.

2) A shift is a full-move action, a 5-foot step (1 square) that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A fighter, however, can still attack opponents who try to shift away.

3) Yes, a misunderstanding. The cleric's healing word actually consumes one of his target's healing surges, and is usable twice per encounter. After a short rest, encounter powers reset, but if he were to use those powers again you guys would have to rest again after that for him to get his focus back again, and it would STILL use up healing surges (though obviously not as many)... at which point it's much more trouble than it was worth.

4) Many effects do over-ride each other (such as mark), so you might have done that right.

5) You may mean push/pull/or slide... These are forced movements and do not provoke opportunity attacks. An actual shift is a move action a PC or monster can take intentionally.
Kobolds, for example, are *shifty*, which means they can shift as a minor action instead of as a move action. What Kathra can do is *push* a foe, and then *shift* into the square they occupied. The difference is in the action being forced or voluntary.

6) Athletics = climb, swim, jump.
Acrobatics = balance, tumbling, type checks.

ParagonofVirtue said:

7) Say the warlock or wizard is being attacked by a melee combatant, and they want to cast a spell, does this still provoke opportunity attacks like in 3x?

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Yes, unless it has the Close keyword for spells.

They can still shift 1 with a move action though and attack from there. Most monsters don't seem to have reach that can trigger an opportunity attack.

ParagonofVirtue said:

7) Say the warlock or wizard is being attacked by a melee combatant, and they want to cast a spell, does this still provoke opportunity attacks like in 3x?

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Ranged and area attacks provoke OA's... So firing a bow, casting a magic missile, etc. would earn an attack. But they could use their move action to shift away, one square out of range, and then cast their spell with no problem

ParagonofVirtue said:

Thanks for the swift replies!

The lack of -4 would have made every encounter soooo much easier for the player's, and they already pretty much burned through everything with little trouble. We had one encounter (skeletons in the tomb) where a player was at 0 hit points, and 2 went down on negatives on the dragon. Thats it, and it seems they were handicapped badly

Click to expand...

The lack of the -4 penalty helps both sides. If you use some artillery monsters against the PCs, you will see that. But I think what helps even more is that allies don't provide cover, and that normal cover is only -2. (The -4 for firing into melee could be avoided by all types of ranged NPCs and PCs at level 3 or earlier, thanks to Precise Shot, in 3E). I think the change is for the better, since it makes it easier to combine monsters with different attack types.