HW conversions, especially spells

I have been running an OD&D campaign for quite some time now (WOTI, to be exact) and have recently decided to switch it to 3.5 ed. rules.
I can convert most of the material I need without problems, but I encountered one issue that got me looking over the internet, because i just couldn't believe nobody had done it before me, and I hate re-inventing the wheel.

My party currently is walking around the Hollow World. In the hollow world, not all spells work. This resulted in the OD&D modules in a simple list of working, not working and unknown spells.
However, 3.5 contains a somewhat larger list of spells (understatement) and I was wondering if anyone has already compiled a list of not working spells for the hollow world?

Any help at all is appreciated.

Herzog

i don't know a great deal about how the hollow world does and does not work. is there a similar theme between which spells function which way, or is it just an arbitrary list?

and BTW as a side note, we are working on converted OD&D monsters at the Creature Catalog forums. it's a long list though, so it may just take forever to get through them. however, if there were enough demand for Hollow World monsters, i might just be persuaded to start a separate thread for them...

According to the Hollow World DM's source book:

Spells that don't work:

spells of holding ( hold person, hold monster )
spells of charming and commanding ( snake charm, quest, charm person, charm monster, geas, charm plant, mass charm)
spells of divination and communication( know alignment, speak with dead, commune, ESP, contact outer plane)
spells of summoning(insect plague, aerial servant, create normal animals, conjure elemental, invisible stalker, create normal monster, create magical monsters, create any monster)
spells of immortality( raise dead, reaise dead fully, reincarnation)
spells of instantaneous transportation.(word of recall, travel, dimension door, teleport, summon object, teleport any object, travel, gate)

Note: these are not complete listings of the OD&D spells sets that don't work, just sample selections.

On the subject of Hollow World monsters:
Most of the monsers explicitly described in the Hollow Wold source books are those that can be found in 'Lost World' settings: Dinosaurs, Giant varieties of animals (buffalo, etc) and neanthertal humanoid races.
Some specific ideas are:
1. 'FlapSails'. This is an unintelligent variety of Red Dragon, possibly a predecessor.
2. Lizardmen and Orcs as player races.
3. 'Qubits', a magically engeneered race of people only half the size of halflings.
4. Beastmen (as player race!). A genetically chaotic species where every member of the race has different physical characteristics. Description includes tables for skin color, hair, eye color, height (ranging, after applying str and con mod's from 2'9" to 7'11"), weight (equally large range), appearence of ears, teeth(includes shrklike and rabbit-like), and possible other, like furry body, one eye, three eyes, etc.

Subspecies are listed for elves and dwarves, but essentially this are more cultural differences then other.

A big difference for OD&D in the Hollow World setting is that, since magic is more difficult, (and magic users must have int 16 to cast spells) it became possible to play an Elf that COULND'T cast magic spells, introducing (to my knowledge) the FIRST race/class distinction in D&D.

Herzog

wow. those are some pretty heavy restrictions on spells there. if i had my PHB in front of me, i could do a little something with that. if next week proves to have some free time (yay holiday!) i can work out some things for ya.

Ok, thanx! not that I'm lazy, but any work done by someone else is less work by me.

Anyway, I will probably make an attempt myself anyway, and then I could post my results here, for the benefit of the world ;-)
And of course, to be debated.....


Note that the basis of the spell-restrictions (meta-game wise of course) was:
(From the same section in the Hollow World DM's source book)

With these restrictions, characters can't magically force monsters and NPC's to be their allies; they must use their own persuasiveness to make friends.
Teht can't tap into the minds of others, and must rely on their own perceptiveness to find out what others are thinking.
They can't call in monsters from other planes to help them fight; the World-Shield prevents mortals from performing interplanar transportation of any sort while in the Hollow World. They can't hurl themselves whti carefree abandon into fights, sure that they'll be reaised if they fail; here, dead is dead. And they can't just pop all over the Hollow World map, or in and out of the Hollow World, at will; to explore, they have to fly over or stomp over every inch of ground, and to leave the Hollow World they must find the physical exit and travel through it. Nothing's easy in the Hollow World, and the restrictions on magic reflect this fact.


Herzog

So, basically, all spells with the Calling, Creation, Mind-Affecting, Summoning, or Teleportation descriptors, as well asspells that bring a dead creature back to life are suppressed. You wouldn’t want to cut out the Conjuration school altogether as that cuts out the cure spells. Likewise, Divination gives you identify and true seeing, so I don’t know if you want to kill the whole school or not. Mind-affecting covers all Enchantment spells, which seem to be right out. Abjurations, Evocations, Illusions, Necromancy, and Transmutations seem to be OK for the most part, but can be judged on a case-by-case basis. For example, you would also want to cut out commune, control plants, control undead, contact other plane, detect chaos/evil/good/law, and speak with dead since they are on your list, but don’t fit into the categories I mentioned in the first sentence.

I think you are correct, with the exception of 'detect evil/good/...'

also keep in mind the general idea behind the 'not working' spells:
prevent instantaneous travel, mind control, bringing back the dead, and any spell that functions through the passing of matter from one plane to another.

As such, I have already ruled a ring of truth (recognise if someone is telling the truth) to be functioning normally, since it is not an active, but a passive reading of intentions.

Herzog

well, it's your call as far as what stays and goes, since you know the material better than i do. i just hope i gave you a good starting point...

Ok, here is the complete list of useless and unaffected spells.
also, there is a list of 'unknown' spells. the idea behind this is that most of the cultures in the Hollow World are rather 'backward', thus wizards having a more limited list of spells available. The meta-game idea behind this was to give the players an advantage, even without some spells being suddenly unavailable to them.

As a counter to this, some expansion sources to the Hollow World basic settings introduced new spells, which are mostly more limited, but simmilar to the spells on the unknown list, such as True Strike (putting a spell on a single missile so that it will always hit) effectively trying to replace the missing magic missile, and sun beam ( a beam of fire coming from the central sun) effectively replacing lightning bolt and fire ball.
I feel I must point out that I have already introduced simmilar myselfs ( taken from the AD&D spell lists ) such as the Mage Armor, replacing the Shield spell.

Ok, up to the list. I will list the spells as they appear in the Hollow World players guide, and then again will list the lists alphabetically, no longer distinguishing known/unknown but focussing on working/not working.

Cleric Useless spells:
Hold Person
Know Alignment
Snake Charm
Speak with the Dead
Commune
Insect Plague
Quest
Raise Dead
Truesight
Aerial Servant
Create Normal Annimals
Word of Recall
Raise Dead Fully
Travel
Wish

Cleric Unaffected spells:
Cure Light Wounds
Detect Evil
Detect Magic
Light
Protection From Evil
Purify Food and Water
Remove Fear
Resist Cold
Bless
Find Traps
Resist Fire
Silence 15' radius
Speak With Animals
Continual Light
Cure Blindness
Cure Disease
Growth of Animal
locate Object
Remove Curse
Striking
Animate Dead
Create Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Dispel Magic
Neutralize Poison
Protection from Evil 10' Radius
Speak with Plants
Sticks to Snakes
Create Food
Cure Critical Wounds
Dispel Evil
Animate Objects
Barrier
Cureall
find the Path
Speak with Monsters
Earthquake
Holy Word
Restore
Survival
Wizardry

Druid Useless spells (includes cleric useless spells):
Hold Animal
Transport Through Plants
Summon Elemental

Druid unaffected spells:
Detect Danger
faerie fire
locate
predict weather
heat metzal
obscure
produce fire
warp wood
call lightning
protection from poison
water brething
control temperature 10'radius
plant door
protection from lightning
summon animals
anti-plant shell
control winds
dissolve pass plant
anti-animal shell
summon weather
turn wood
creeping doom
metal to wood
weather control

Wizard Useless spells:
Charm Person
Floating Disk
Ventriloquism
Detect Ubvusubke
ESP
Invisibility
Clairvoyance
Hold Person
Invisibility 10' radius
charm monster
dimension door
conjure elemental
contact outer plane
hold monster
magic jar
teleport
death spell
disintegrate
geas
invisible stalker
reincarnation
charm plant
create normal monsters
lore
mass invisibility
summon object
teleport any object
create magical monsters
mass charm
travel
create any monster
gate
wish

wizards: unknown spells
magic misslie
read languages
shield
sleep
mirror image
fire ball
lightning bolt
water breathing
confusion
ice storm/wall
massmorph
polymorph others
polymorph self
amimate dead
cloudkill
feeblemind
telekinesis
death spell
disintegrate
wall of iron
weather control
delayed blast filer ball
power word stun
reverse gravity
sword
explosive cloud
force field
mind barrier
polymorph any object
power word blind
maze
meteor swarm
power word kill
prismatic wall timestop

wizard: limited known spell(only certain cultures):
create air

wizard: unaffected spells
detect magic
hold portal
light
protection from evil
read magic
continual light
detect evil
knock
levitate
locate object
phantasmal force
web
wizard lock
dispel magic
fly
haste
infravision
protection from evil 10' radius
protection from normal missiles
growth of plants
hallucinatory terrain
remove curse
wall of fire
wizard eye
dissolve
pass-wall
wall of stone
anti-magic shell
lower water
move earth
projected image
stone to flesh
magic door
stature
clone
dance permanence
symbol
contingency
heal
immunity
shapechange

---------------------------
Ok, list of useless spells alphabetically:
Aerial Servant
charm monster
Charm Person
charm plant
Clairvoyance
Commune
conjure elemental
contact outer plane
create any monster
create magical monsters
Create Normal Annimals
create normal monsters
death spell
Detect Ubvusubke
dimension door
disintegrate
ESP
Floating Disk
gate
geas
Hold Animal
hold monster
Hold Person
Insect Plague
Invisibility
Invisibility 10' radius
invisible stalker
Know Alignment
lore
magic jar
mass charm
mass invisibility
Quest
Raise Dead
Raise Dead Fully
reincarnation
Snake Charm
Speak with the Dead
Summon Elemental
summon object
teleport
teleport any object
Transport Through Plants
Travel
Truesight
Ventriloquism
Wish
Word of Recall

Unaffected spells alphabetically:
Animate Dead
Animate Objects
anti-animal shell
anti-magic shell
anti-plant shell
Barrier
Bless
call lightning
clone
cloudkill
confusion
contingency
Continual Light
control temperature 10'radius
control winds
create air
Create Food
Create Water
creeping doom
Cure Blindness
Cure Critical Wounds
Cure Disease
Cure Light Wounds
Cure Serious Wounds
Cureall
dance permanence
death spell
delayed blast filer ball
Detect Danger
Detect Evil
Detect Magic
disintegrate
Dispel Evil
Dispel Magic
dissolve
pass plant
Earthquake
explosive cloud
faerie fire
feeblemind
find the Path
Find Traps
fire ball
fly
force field
Growth of Animal
growth of plants
hallucinatory terrain
haste
heal
heat metal
hold portal
Holy Word
ice storm/wall
immunity
infravision
knock
levitate
Light
lightning bolt
locate
locate Object
lower water
magic door
magic misslie
massmorph
maze
metal to wood
meteor swarm
mind barrier
mirror image
move earth
Neutralize Poison
obscure
pass-wall
phantasmal force
plant door
polymorph any object
polymorph others
polymorph self
power word blind
power word kill
power word stun
predict weather
prismatic wall
produce fire
projected image
Protection From Evil
Protection from Evil 10' Radius
protection from lightning
protection from normal missiles
protection from poison
Purify Food and Water
read languages
read magic
Remove Curse
Remove Fear
Resist Cold
Resist Fire
Restore
reverse gravity
shapechange
shield
Silence 15' radius
sleep
Speak With Animals
Speak with Monsters
Speak with Plants
statue
Sticks to Snakes
stone to flesh
Striking
summon animals
summon weather
Survival
sword
symbol
telekinesis
timestop
turn wood
wall of fire
wall of iron
wall of stone
warp wood
water breathing
weather control
web
wizard eye
wizard lock
Wizardry

Last but not least, note that the summoning spells for the druid are UNAFFECTED!!! This is probably rationalised because in the case of the druid, the creatures are not called from another plane, nor drawn against their will, but simple 'called' by the druid and his place in nature.

I will begin looking at the 0 lvl spells (3.5) and make an educated guess to seperate working and not-working spells. As soon as I'm finished, I'll post the list. I appreciate comment!
After I finish with 0 lvl, I'll look at first lvl, and so on.
I hope to finish the list before I get tired of it or I need spells of that lvl in my campaign.... which will probably resume before I finish all spell lvls...

herzog

Ok, here's the first list.

I have mainly used the 'basic reasoning' when finding which spells won't work, but also used simmilarities to spells listed as not working that (in my idea) did not make sense at all. (primary questionable spell that didn't work in OD&D: Ventriloquism. which now renders all sound-based things like ghost sound as not working. If you disagree, please say so! If you can give me a reason why ventriloquism didn't work, but ghost sound should, I will be happy to use it in the 'working' spell list.

0-LEVEL BARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS)

Working:
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Flare: Dazzles one creature (–1 on attack rolls).
Know Direction: You discern north.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Lullaby: Makes subject drowsy; –5 on Spot and Listen checks, –2 on Will saves against sleep.
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object. 181
Message: Whispered conversation at distance.
Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things.
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.

Not working:
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.
Summon Instrument: Summons one instrument of the caster’s choice.

0-LEVEL CLERIC SPELLS (ORISONS)
Working:
Create Water: Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Cure Minor Wounds: Cures 1 point of damage.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object.
Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Inflict Minor Wounds: Touch attack, 1 point of damage.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp.

0-LEVEL DRUID SPELLS (ORISONS)

Working:
Create Water: Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Cure Minor Wounds: Cures 1 point of damage.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or object.
Flare: Dazzles one creature (–1 penalty on attack rolls).
Guidance: +1 on one attack roll, saving throw, or skill check.
Know Direction: You discern north.
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Purify Food and Drink: Purifies 1 cu. ft./level of food or water.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 bonus on saving throws.
Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp.

0-LEVEL SORCERER/WIZARD SPELLS (CANTRIPS)
Working:
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Acid Splash: Orb deals 1d3 acid damage.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action.
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Flare: Dazzles one creature (–1 on attack rolls).
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Ray of Frost: Ray deals 1d3 cold damage.
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead.
Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target.
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Message: Whispered conversation at distance.
Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things.
Arcane Mark: Inscribes a personal rune (visible or invisible).
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.

Not Working:
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.