d20 vs. GURPS?

I know next to nothing at all about GURPs except regarding it's "generic" nature. However, I'm interested in checking out some new systems, and this one came to mind.

How is GURPS different than d20? Are the power levels about the same? How is the magic system? Psionics included? Just how powerful does the magic get?

These are what I consider to be the large differences:

(1) GURPS characters are made with character points, instead of levels. Everything is purchased in this way: ability scores (4 vs 6 for d20), skills, advantages, and disadvantages (negative points, which allow for more positive things). This allows more flexibility at chargen, but can make it daunting with the sheer amount of choice available.

(2) Instead of rolling high, GURPS rolls low on 3d6. Using a bell curve rather than a straight d20 roll makes critical hits and misses much more rare. The basic idea for actions is to roll under your relevant skill for any action, from combat to spells & psionic powers to skills. Every activity is boiled down to a skill (or a default from another skill, sort of like an ability score check).

GURPS tends to run "realistic" things well, in which combat is deadly no matter how skilled your character might be. It tends to need additional rules and a tweak here of there to run cinematic or superhero-level games. There are a variety of magic systems, but they boil down to the same mechanic described above.

I was looking for something more realistic. So that's good.

How is the magic? Vancian? Spell Points? Freeform?

Ashrem Bayle said:

How is the magic? Vancian? Spell Points? Freeform?

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I guess spell points, since casting temporarily reduces either Health or Stamina. Losses also depend on the caster's skill and the "mana level" of the setting; ie, whether magic is plentiful or rare.

This is a very involved question, but I'll try and sum up.

* Magic works on a mana system. Mana points don't get that high; most common spells use 1-3 points of mana, while uber-spells would need things called Mana Stones (essentially mana batteries, some rechargeable, some not) plus other people contributing their own mana via Group Magic and so on.

* You learn individual spells much like you would learn skills and feats; 1 skill per spell, but some spells have prerequisites of other spells (example: Fireball would require Create Fire first, or you couldn't learn it).

* You must make a caster check to "activate" a spell. Once activated, you might have to make a combat check to lob, shoot, or maintain it. You can have any number of spells "on" at any time, but each additional spell makes casting other spells harder.

* Combat rounds in GURPS are ine 1-second increments. Casting damaging spells becomes a huge pain in this system; casting a Fireball (for example) nets you 1d6 the first second but you must "charge" the spell each second to get more damage potential. The trade-off is that a 3d6 Fireball will probably kill anyone in one hit... but most of your melee pals will have chopped your foes into bts by then. It's wonky like that.

* In the "default" Fantasy setting, no one may learn magic without the "Magery" advantage (like a feat). This advantage increases your effective skill levels for ALL your spells, though. Because of its character point (CP) expense, combined with the expense of learning spells in the first place, you will find very few 'dabblers' in the arcane arts.

* There are two GURPS gaming books chock full of magic spells (the Basic GURPS book having a few, well, basic spells), ALL of which are extremely nifty. GURPS Magic and GURPS Grimoire are a MUST (!!!) have for the wizards.

It's been a while since I've played GURPS. My first character ever was a jack-of-all-trades type who was very AD&D 2e Bard-like in capability. He was a Song Wizard; he had to be able to sing to cast spells, couldn't cast spells UNLESS he was singing, and enjoyed a cheaper spell cost to learn new magic as a trade-off.

Making GURPS characters in general is extremely (!) daunting at first. Limit yourself to the Basic rules until you become more familiar with the system. Then, start introducing spells from the other Magic books.

I've also found that the more GURPS books you buy, the more precarious it is to make characters as the wealth of options becomes overwhelming and you're never quite sure what's b0rken until you actually see it in play, which is usually much too late.

Committed Hero said:

I guess spell points, since casting temporarily reduces either Health or Stamina. Losses also depend on the caster's skill and the "mana level" of the setting; ie, whether magic is plentiful or rare.

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That, too.

I forget the actual rates of recovery for spent mana, but the default mana level for Fantasy recovers at an average rate. Very High mana worlds regenrate mana at a rate of up to 1 per second, while Very Low might do 1/day.

Also, I forgot to mention that, at higher skill levels, spells cost less mana to cast and at very high levels, do not require verbal/somatic components (again, the default assumption of GURPS Fantasy magic requires V/S components for spells).

I may have to check into this. It sounds like just the kind of system I've been looking for as an alternate to D&D.

GURPS PCs are always fun to create (although you as GM need to keep a tight rein on what is allowed and how much it costs) and the basic system can be used for just about any setting. Keep in mind, however, that GURPS characters don't really advance much after creation. A few points here and there will make a few skill better, but no major abilities or going to be added. Of course, as GM you can change that, giving out more points if you feel the need to do so. There is no "Leveling up" and for many gamers that is a major change.

Personally I prefer GURPS for one shots or small single adventure campaigns, specially ones not set in a Sword n Sorcery world, and d20 for on going or longer campaigns.

One thing I've found about GURPS is that it is a bit deadlier than D&D; for one, Health (basically, your Hit Points) don't improve over time, or VERY slowly if you're putting points into it. Also, firearms are very deadly; e.g. if you've got let's say 12 or 14 hit points, an undodged rifle bullet can do anywhere from 4d6 to 8d6 damage, depending on make and caliber. You don't die immediately, but you do go down at -1 or more health, and have to make a check periodically to avoid dying. Past -(5 x HT), you're dead; past -(10 x HT), you're hamburger. Melee weapons are pretty deadly, but less so, doing anywhere from 1d6 minus a number to about 2d6 plus adds in damage. Again, dodging death and the defense from armor is your friend.

It's a varied system, with lots of good add-ons, and SPECTACULAR source-books. Some of the early source books are some of the best reading material I ever found, in addition to being good game books.

Stormborn said:

GURPS PCs are always fun to create (although you as GM need to keep a tight rein on what is allowed and how much it costs) and the basic system can be used for just about any setting. Keep in mind, however, that GURPS characters don't really advance much after creation. A few points here and there will make a few skill better, but no major abilities or going to be added. Of course, as GM you can change that, giving out more points if you feel the need to do so. There is no "Leveling up" and for many gamers that is a major change.

Personally I prefer GURPS for one shots or small single adventure campaigns, specially ones not set in a Sword n Sorcery world, and d20 for on going or longer campaigns.

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I'm actually the other way around. I prefer d20 for one shots or very small adventures because of its quick and limited character creation. I prefer GURPS for longer campaigns as it has a more in-depth character creation system that allows for a great deal more customization and a more flexible spell and combat system.

Although I admit, the GM needs to keep a tight reign on what's allowed for characters in GURPS. It is one of those systems where you need to run it for a short campaign once before really getting a feel and balance for things.