Riding Characters

IOC we have two players that are a team. One is a largish (but still Medium sized) half-orc, and on his shoulders rides a gnome character (alternatively, on one shoulder). When in combat, the gnome jumps down into one of the adjacent squares.

However, it becomes tricky when the party is surprised, or the half-orc and/or the gnome are flat-footed. Unlike mounts, they have separate initiatives. Questions such as AoOs, both by them and directed at them, actions performed before the gnome jumps down, either of them targeted by attacks or spells, etc., continually arise.

The player cry of "...but I'm on his shoulders!" becomes very frequent in intense situations, and frustrations arise on both sides. So I would like to provide a fair but permanent ruling for this mechanic. The fact that the gnome rides on the half-orc's shoulder(s) is an RP element I would not like to quash.

For the moment, I have ruled that the gnome actually occupies a square that he choses adjacent to the half-orc for all intents and purposes, event though they roleplay as if the gnome is on top of the half-orc. That's ok, but not totally satisfactory since it does not cover movement when combat begins (or a trap that suddenly springs open under the half-orc).

I'm also considering allowing the gnome to occupy the 5' "cube" above the half-orc, and move with the half-orc until he jumps down (a move-equivalent action, can be combined in a 5 ft. step). Any AoOs, attacks, weapons reach , spells, etc., would take that into consideration. If the half-orc falls, the gnome falls with him. The gnome would not have any particular bonuses or penalties for being on the half-orc's shoulders (AC, can get grappled, saves, etc.), but would simply occupy a cube 5' off the ground.

Thoughts? Any other rules I should be aware of that covers this?

The gnome should occupy the same area as the half-orc. This is normally treated like any other mounted situation except:
1) There would be a -5 penalty to ride checks, since the rules say "If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a -5 penalty on your Ride checks."
2) The rules also say "If you are riding bareback, you take a -5 penalty on Ride checks"
3) I would recommend using the Aggressive Mount rules from the RotG, some of which I've re-printed below:
"Riding Along with an Aggressive Mount: If your mount isn't trained for war but chooses to fight with you aboard, you can just give the mount its head. You and your mount make separate initiative rolls. Because there are some full-round actions you cannot perform while your mount moves (see Parts Three and Four), you must delay until after your mount's turn to use such actions if your mount's turn in the initiative order comes before your own turn comes. Even then your mount's movements could keep you from performing your intended action.

When it's finally your turn to act, you must succeed on a DC 10 Ride check to adjust your actions to fit your mount's uncontrolled movements. The check is a move action for you, but it does not provoke attacks of opportunity. (You're looking after yourself, not your mount.) If you fail, your mount's movements keep you from taking any actions this round. If you succeed, you can use a standard action. Just remember that you're allowing your mount to take you where it will, so your options might prove limited."

Let the gnome take Mounted Combat to avoid attacks on the orc

Mr Vincent.. Thanks!

I had HR's that were mechanically similar to that, but not as consicely written!

Hrm...

Thanks for the input, but treating the half-orc as a mount? I dunno, opens up a whole can of worms if they choose to stretch it with mounted combat feats...

I would rather treat the gnome as flying 5ft off the ground, with movement that matches the half-orc until he jumps off. Makes things all nice and tidy. Otherwise I would have to consider all of the mounted rules all the time.

Anyone else have input? Or a vote for the mounted option?

Definitely go with the mounted rules. It's what is intended for just this situation. (There was a thread around here a couple of months back about the same thing, and there were some further rules citations and clarifications that were useful for this situation, if you can find the thread.)

I would add that the Gnome still needs to make a Ride check to do a fast dismount at the beginning of combat, or else he'll need to use a move action to get down. He ought to consider some ranks in Ride for those surprise situations.

If the half-orc is game, they could get a custom saddle made which would make it easier on the gnome (eliminate one of the two -5 penalties).

If the half-orc is willing to be *really* helpful, the gnome could even use magic to give the orc a hunchback so that he serves as a better mount, eliminating the other penalty. Polymorph-related spells could do that, as could a custom spell for the gnome to research.

I'd peg "Hunchback" as:

Hunchback
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 hour per level
Saving Throw: Fort negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell alters a humanoid's back and shoulders to make them suitable as a mount for a smaller creature.

The spell does not hamper the target creature's movement or abilities, but the target creature suffers a -2 penalty to all Charisma-based skills when dealing with members of their own species for the duration of the spell. The target creature's back and shoulder's become enlarged and flattened to provide a suitable surface for riding.

Ruling the H/Orc as a mount doesn't run into any stretching issues with Mounted Combat feats...

Basically there are two possible states:
Aggressive mount, using the rules Mr Vincent so nicely provided

Passive mount, using the normal Ride rules, in which the H/Orc would be limited to doing *only* what the Halfing directs him to do....

You can only use Mounted Combat, etc.., with a Passive mount.

andargor said:

treating the half-orc as a mount? I dunno

Click to expand...

This exact issue (i.e. a hafling or gnome using a half-orc as a mount) has come up several times before on these boards, and this is how it was always handled. Also note that PC's, cohorts, and NPC's are often expected to serve as mounts in other instances. It is commonly done with dragons, centaurs, giant eagles, blink dogs, nightmares, polymorphed party members, shapechanged druids, etc.

Guess how they are all handled?

Play as works for you though; I just try to provide information.

mvincent said:

This exact issue (i.e. a hafling or gnome using a half-orc as a mount) has come up several times before on these boards, and this is how it was always handled. Also note that PC's, cohorts, and NPC's are often expected to serve as mounts in other instances. It is commonly done with dragons, centaurs, giant eagles, blink dogs, nightmares, polymorphed party members, shapechanged druids, etc.

Guess how they are all handled?

Play as works for you though; I just try to provide information.

Click to expand...

Okay OKAY! It was doubiousness, not snarkyness.

I did a search, and this is what I found which is later than 2004:

Combat - Humanoid Mounts
Feats - Can a goblin riding an ogre use Mounted Combat to defend the ogre?
Skills - Intelligent Mounts + Handle Animal?

I'll discuss it with the players, and see how they feel about it. Thanks for the input.

Get a Pixie paladin as cohort that rides you. Gives you pretty fast all the nice paladin mount abilities

That's why you shouldn't "ride" someone.