The Real problem with 3e D&D

Michael Morris

First Post
In a word - recombinance.

And it's not an easy problem to solve because it is the greatest strength of 3e.

Let me define the term. Recombinance is how well or poorly the rules of a game recombine to allow for options in play. Games don't have to have a lot of rules to have a high recombinance factor - chess has only a handful of rules, but thousands of opening lines. Magic the Gathering 's cards can combine and recombine in a myriad of ways.

The problem with 3e is that the game has finally moved to a state where you can combine and recombine things - in theory. You can advance monster hit dice, add templates and classes to them, and even determine their ability stats randomly like a PC. Unfortunately each layer of detail you add to a base monster creates a fair amount of calculations. 3e has been accused of having a lot more calculation to do, and it's true. 3e has a lot of recombinance, but it handles it poorly. This becomes even more painfully obvious when spells and abilities refactor - a barbarian's rage has enough effect on a character that you might as well use a 'raging' sheet (in fact my barb player does use a 'raging' character sheet ;) )

I'm not sure there's an easy solution. AD&D's answer to this problem was simply to ignore it and not provide rules for it (which isn't much of a solution to be honest). The best solution I can think of is to come up with effective computer campaign management software. I know there's a few packages out there, and I've tried a few - but none of them strike me as particularly effective.
 

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Shroomy

Adventurer
There's a trade-off, you either utilize the options and accept the added work, or you minimize the options and thus minimize the added work. Personally, while the number crunching can sometimes be tedious, the final results always leave me with an evil smile, ;)
 

Treebore

First Post
Michael Morris said:
In a word - recombinance.

And it's not an easy problem to solve because it is the greatest strength of 3e.

Let me define the term. Recombinance is how well or poorly the rules of a game recombine to allow for options in play. Games don't have to have a lot of rules to have a high recombinance factor - chess has only a handful of rules, but thousands of opening lines. Magic the Gathering 's cards can combine and recombine in a myriad of ways.

The problem with 3e is that the game has finally moved to a state where you can combine and recombine things - in theory. You can advance monster hit dice, add templates and classes to them, and even determine their ability stats randomly like a PC. Unfortunately each layer of detail you add to a base monster creates a fair amount of calculations. 3e has been accused of having a lot more calculation to do, and it's true. 3e has a lot of recombinance, but it handles it poorly. This becomes even more painfully obvious when spells and abilities refactor - a barbarian's rage has enough effect on a character that you might as well use a 'raging' sheet (in fact my barb player does use a 'raging' character sheet ;) )

I'm not sure there's an easy solution. AD&D's answer to this problem was simply to ignore it and not provide rules for it (which isn't much of a solution to be honest). The best solution I can think of is to come up with effective computer campaign management software. I know there's a few packages out there, and I've tried a few - but none of them strike me as particularly effective.

If I ever DM 3E again its going to be with a list of specific books, feats, spells, etc... that will be allowed for my campaign. It will be validated by the fact that this is how my campaign world works.

If a player doesn't like that and doesn't play thats fine. I'll look at them as using an excepted way of crying about not be able to be a powergamer or munchkin player. Typically (there has been exceptions) not the kind of player I like having in my games anyways. Plus I am obviously not the type of DM they want to play under. So it all works out.
 

You misspelled encumberance there ;).

I agree in principle that ther eis an excess of calculation, but I think it could be manageable if you eliminate things such as stacking. If you only get one bonus to AC, regardless of source, it cuts down a lot of calculation ... but then you have fewer options. Tough balance, that. And frnkly, I don't think it's ever totally unmanageable --certainly not in the "sweet spot" of the game at low-to-mid levels.
 

Michael Morris

First Post
Well, a partial solution is to try to move the rules towards being slightly easier to implement with a computer and let the computer calculate these things.
 

Crothian

First Post
I think the solution is to only use as much as you are conformable with. If the raging barbarian can't keep track of everything from all his different bonuses and buffs then maybe he shouldn't be playing that character.
 


FreeTheSlaves

Adventurer
We limit the source books for good reason - we're very busy people outside the game and have little time for rules mastery.

Also when I dm I slow experience gained if a player is having a hard time mastering their character's various powers. The temptation to cut slack actually works out counter productive when they have to re-sit the previous level when their guy dies.
 



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