The Real problem with 3e D&D

[Pants]

::Turn on old-folks mode:: Why, I remember a day when the only thing that differentiated fighters was their equipment and the way they were role played. We didn't need all them feats and skills to tell one from the other. We actually had to come up with different character personalities to distinguish our characters, up hill both ways and in ten feet of snow. ::Old folks mode off::

Hm, well I think there are ways of expressing ones preferences for different playstyles and systems without being snarky about it, but what do I know?

 

[The Levitator]

We've been using DM Genie for the past 3 years and we have a great time playing, even into decent levels (last campaign ended at 10-12). The group has said they wouldn't play without it. I know it's not perfect, but it REALLY speeds up our game, doing all of the calculations for us so that we can concentrate on description and decision making. The other thing that is really nice about DM Genie is that it is completely customizable. When new books come out, you can add the feats, skills, prestige classes, etc., right into your campaign.

The biggest advantage for me is its ability to add variants and houserules. Here's a shortlist of some of the houserules we are able to use and still have an action calculated with a single click:

Opposed Defense Roll

Armor As DR (DM Genie also automatically tracks physical damage to armor and shields)

Class Defense Bonus

Flanking Bonuses (per the UA variant)

Clobbered Variant

Death at -CON

FORT roll for unconscious at -1 or lower

Battle Fatigue ( a houserule I created, and it's automatically scripted)

Playing Core with DM Genie is even easier. I'm not a paid spokesperson for DM Genie, just a VERY satisfied customer. if you want a game management program, I haven't been able to find anything that even comes close. It has a bit of a learning curve at first, but becomes second nature pretty quickly. Aside from the rules and combat, it also has a Campaign Manager saves me hours of time in campaign planning, and even has a time/weather tracker with built-in conditions that you can apply to encounters. I know it comes with a free trial at DM Genie . For anyone who is interested in taking a look at this program, feel free to IM me with any questions about it, and I'll be happy to help in any way I can. Or you can join the boards over at DM Genie and look for me there. My handle there is: thelevitator

Good gaming everyone!

james

 

[Reynard]

Some will say they just stat what is necessary or gloss over the NPC and monster stats. To me this is handwaving and it can have drawbacks with a player who knows the rules as well or better than you and calls you out on something that might be wrong. It also made me realize that if I was going to do this why play D&D 3.x instead of a rules-light d20 alternative. Just my 2 cents.

A lot of this kind of stuff is unnecessary work. IME many DMs choose to overwhelm themselves with fully classed NPCs and/or advanced monsters simply because the option is there, when they could have just as easily picked tougher humanoids/monsters straight from the book. A goodly portion of the "D&D takes too long to prep" complaints are based on the fact that DMs do it to themselves. Now, with the Delve Format and MMIV (and V it seems), there's very little room for prep-time complaints. The resources are there and more comprehensive than ever. Spend your time creating cool environments and compelling adventure hooks, I say.

 

[Li Shenron]

Personally I avoid the "CPU problem" simply by not DMing games at high levels.

It is not really a problem with the amount of books used... It's a problem for example with the amount of spells a character has stacked on himself, or the re-calculations needed when you dispel SOME of them but not all, or when one more effect (like Rage) kicks in.

That gets worse as characters have more abilities taken, particularly more spells to buff themselves with, but it doesn't really matter if these abilities come from the PHB or another book.

At best, PHB stuff may be easier than non-core stuff because you've seen the former many times, and also because non-core stuff sometimes is unnecessarily more complicated for some reasons.

 

[Imaro]

A lot of this kind of stuff is unnecessary work. IME many DMs choose to overwhelm themselves with fully classed NPCs and/or advanced monsters simply because the option is there, when they could have just as easily picked tougher humanoids/monsters straight from the book. A goodly portion of the "D&D takes too long to prep" complaints are based on the fact that DMs do it to themselves. Now, with the Delve Format and MMIV (and V it seems), there's very little room for prep-time complaints. The resources are there and more comprehensive than ever. Spend your time creating cool environments and compelling adventure hooks, I say.

My point is if I'm not going to use the "advantages" of the system why use the system. Take for example C&C; If I'm just going to run standard monsters from the 3.x MM, increasing the CR monsters encountered, I can easily use the C&C system with escalating hit die for tougher monsters, switching out one special quality for another, or using tougher monsters. Still easier and simpler than using 3.x( as written) with the same effect that you describe above.

So I am suppose to spend more money to make a game simpler ? I can get the C&C books (PHB & MT) for $40. Why would I spend $90+$30(MMIV)+$30(MMV)=$150
just to get less prep time?

" Spend your time creating cool environments and compelling adventure hooks, I say."

Couldn't agree more that's why I have(for the most part) switched to C&C. The statements above still don't address the fact that feats, skills, special qualities, special abilities, spells etc. must be remembered and addressed in combat and interaction...otherwise the CR system isn't really valid and XP gained isn't either. Majority of the solutions to prep-time(except the handwaving one)seem to involve spending more money, sometimes I wonder if this also was a design consideration of 3.x. Make rules mastery and rule complication inherent enough that options for simplification can also be sold

 

[wayne62682]

The problem is that everything new is added as a freaking FEAT! You only get SEVEN for the most part over 20 levels. Half the new things should be character options, not feats. Things like the Reserve Feats, the ones in Scoundrel that let two multiclass thing stack (Forget the names right now) ought to automatically apply for classes of those type, not be bones that you can waste a feat on to get.

 

[The Levitator]

A lot of this kind of stuff is unnecessary work. IME many DMs choose to overwhelm themselves with fully classed NPCs and/or advanced monsters simply because the option is there, when they could have just as easily picked tougher humanoids/monsters straight from the book. A goodly portion of the "D&D takes too long to prep" complaints are based on the fact that DMs do it to themselves. Now, with the Delve Format and MMIV (and V it seems), there's very little room for prep-time complaints. The resources are there and more comprehensive than ever. Spend your time creating cool environments and compelling adventure hooks, I say.

I wholeheartedly agree!! Well said! I've been running a few different groups with a lot of younger players that seems that most of them want to be so exotic. What's strange is that many of them seem to have trouble keeping human single class characters alive. We play a pretty straight campaign, just using Core+FR+Complete. It's been my experience that D&D almost has too many options if you allow everything in print. I'm not the world's greatest DM, so I tend to struggle a bit with higher level encounters, even running fairly simple character builds (multiclassed (2) with single PrC's being the limit) and using DM Genie.

Don't get me wrong, I love D&D. But there is no game that perfectly simulates fantastical reality, because it's so subjective. So we do the best we can with the systems we like. The key for me has been learning my limits so that I don't bog the game down any more than the rules system already does.

 

[Woas]

I sometimes think that the precident established with the "raising Intellegence Stat through magic" should be applied to a lot more abilities. Those abilities should be re-written to "get to the point". For example:

Rage? A barbarian gets a +2 rage bonus to hit and attack rolls. 2 temporary hp/hd. This effect lasts for X amount of turns.

Cat's Grace? The target gets a +2 enchantment bonus on their initiative checks, balance and tumble skills for X amount of turns.

Bull's Strength? Traget gets a +2 enchantment bonus to hit and attack rolls.

and so forth. Basically take whatever the spell/ability is going to be "really" used for 99% of the time, and just write it like that. Just so long as we could bypass alterting base stats, I would be happy and it would eliminate a lot of book keeping.

 

[Treebore]

Personally I avoid the "CPU problem" simply by not DMing games at high levels.

It is not really a problem with the amount of books used... It's a problem for example with the amount of spells a character has stacked on himself, or the re-calculations needed when you dispel SOME of them but not all, or when one more effect (like Rage) kicks in.

That gets worse as characters have more abilities taken, particularly more spells to buff themselves with, but it doesn't really matter if these abilities come from the PHB or another book.

At best, PHB stuff may be easier than non-core stuff because you've seen the former many times, and also because non-core stuff sometimes is unnecessarily more complicated for some reasons.

Thats all very true.

 

[Treebore]

The problem is that everything new is added as a freaking FEAT! You only get SEVEN for the most part over 20 levels. Half the new things should be character options, not feats. Things like the Reserve Feats, the ones in Scoundrel that let two multiclass thing stack (Forget the names right now) ought to automatically apply for classes of those type, not be bones that you can waste a feat on to get.

There is no reason you couldn't add my C&C house rule to a 3E game. Everyone can attempt feats, but it requires a roll to pull it off. 3E characters who have selected a feat don't have any chance of failure.

Of course this only works for feats that don't change or add to skills, only modifiers to combat/spell actions, and combat maneuvers would be "open" to everyone to try.

Plus this allows people (players and DM's) to try out feats before they commit to it by actually selecting it.

Plus it is balanced by the biggest balancing factor of all, everyone can do it. Or should I say make the attempt?

I think the same ways in which I choose the CL in C&C would work pretty well with determining DC's in 3E.