Roles in RPGs

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

• Jun 20, 2007

• #1

It seems to me like much of the dissatisfaction with the current class and skill system comes from classes marrying a specific combat role with a specific noncombat role.

For example, in core 3.5 it's impossible (without resorting to multiclassing) to have a wizard who can disarm a trap. Or a fighter who can sweet talk a princess.

So why not break the bond, and allow the player to choose their character's roles for both aspects of the game?

Combat roles: melee, archer, buffer, blaster.
Noncombat roles: social, sneaky, lore, locks/traps, wilderness, healer, crafter.

If you want to play a warrior who is knowledgeable (a Doc Holiday or Aragorn type), then you can. If you want to play mage who happens to enjoy tinkering with locks, you can.

No multiclassing, but choices can be further broadened via talent trees.

 

Last edited: Jun 20, 2007

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Doug McCrae

Legend

• Jun 20, 2007

• #2

Zaruthustran said:

Combat roles: melee, archer, buffer, blaster.
Noncombat roles: social, sneaky, lore, locks/traps, wilderness, healer, crafter.

Click to expand...

What if you want to heal, use lore, be sneaky or bluff in combat? Or buff outside of combat?

 

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

• Jun 20, 2007

• #3

Doug McCrae said:

What if you want to heal, use lore, be sneaky or bluff in combat? Or buff outside of combat?

Click to expand...

Well, you could use any of your abilities whether you're in combat or not. Point is, under this system by picking a combat role you're not also automatically saddled with a specific noncombat role. You get to choose.

You can pick in any order. Want to be a sneaky guy? That's fine, you're a sneaky guy. But now you get to pick whether you're a sneaky guy who shoots, a sneaky guy who stabs, a sneaky guy who buffs, or a sneaky guy who blasts.

You're not limited just to either "sneaky guy who tracks, fights with TWF, and has limited spells" or "sneaky guy with poor hit die and 3/4 BAB".

 

Nifft

Penguin Herder

• Jun 20, 2007

• #4

I think it's brilliant, but your original (shorter) post in the other thread said it better.

Discuss in House Rules?

-- N

 

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

• Jun 20, 2007

• #5

Thanks. Maybe I should bushwhack some of that original post.

I'd rather keep it in General than House Rules, since fundamentally it's a thought experiment about game design/4E. As opposed to mods to the existing 3x rules.

 

Nifft

Penguin Herder

• Jun 21, 2007

• #6

See, I immediately jump into implementation...

Background: At 1st level, each character chooses a background. This gives you a set of talent-trees and available class skills.

• Larceny: Add these skills to your skill list for all classes: Sleight of Hand, Bluff, Open Locks, Forgery. You have access to the Larceny and Negotiator talent trees.
• Wilderness: Add these skills to your skill list for all classes: Listen, Survival, Search, Swim. You have access to the Endurance and Tracking talent trees.
• Educated: Add all Knowledge skills to your skill list for all classes. You have access to the Lore talent tree.
• Cloister: Add Knowledge (arcana, religion, history) and Heal to your skill list for all classes. You have access to the Healing and Prayer talent trees.

... etc.

Now you could just have a few classes (maybe just Warrior, Expert, Mage), some talent trees to differentiate them from one another, and access to bonus skills & talent trees via Backgrounds.

Cheers, -- N

PS: Can you tell I've been looking at Star Wars Saga Edition recently?

 

Zaruthustran

The tingling means it’s working!

• Jun 21, 2007

• #7

Hmm, that's interesting. I like that.

What I had in mind was the combat role/class having zero inherent skills associated with it. All skills and other noncombat abilities are chosen by the noncombat class/role, or unlocked via talent trees.

I mean, just because my character swings a sword in a fight doesn't mean he should automatically be skilled in jumping, or riding, or whatever. And it shouldn't automatically mean that he's ignorant of diplomacy or Knowledge: History.

Your method seems like a blend; like you get some base skills from your combat class, and some from your background.

And, man, I gotta check out Saga.

-z

PS: did you name your forum name after a mushroom from Magic Candle?

 

T

T. Foster

First Post

• Jun 21, 2007

• #8

Zaruthustran said:

PS: did you name your forum name after a mushroom from Magic Candle?

Click to expand...

Surely it comes from Michael Shea's fantasy novel Nifft the Lean?!

 

I

Imp

First Post

• Jun 21, 2007

• #9

I think I would like it if there were a few more noncombat roles, and each character could choose two, or if the noncombat roles had some overlap. For example, "sneaky"/"scout" could have spot, search, listen, hide, move silently, jump, climb, swim while "locks/traps"/"burglar" could have open locks, disable device, use magic device, sleight of hand, search, hide, move silently. But it is a very interesting idea.

 

Nifft

Penguin Herder

• Jun 21, 2007

• #10

T. Foster said:

Surely it comes from Michael Shea's fantasy novel Nifft the Lean?!

Click to expand...

That's the one. (But that character says "cheers" less.)

Cheers, -- N