Roles in RPGs

[Zaruthustran]

But, without going so far afield, I think a lot of what Zaruthustran is talking about can be achieved simply by eliminating class skills.

Great posts, man. The above idea is a very simple hack that accomplishes the majority of what I was going for. Simply open up skill choice. I like that.

So, keep the classes, but instead of all Fighters getting climb, craft, handle animal, intimidate, jump, ride, and swim, you can pick any seven skills as class skills.

So you can, for example, embrace a "City Watch" fighter concept and pick class skills of Diplomacy, Intimidate, Listen, Ride, Sense Motive, Search, and Spot. The days of "The best guards are Rogues, because Fighters can't make spot checks" would be over.

I like it.

But it's not a perfect solution. Your points about getting unwanted baggage from multiclassing are spot on. You can't really make an effective tavern brawler guy, for example, because the only way to get decent unarmed damage is to take Monk along with all the karate-guy BS and alignment restrictions that that class brings with it.

-z

 

[Nifft]

You can't really make an effective tavern brawler guy, for example

I want a "Flurry of Chairs" class ability.

-- N

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Combat roles: melee, archer, buffer, blaster.
Noncombat roles: social, sneaky, lore, locks/traps, wilderness, healer, crafter.

I really like this idea. I don't think I've ever seen someone put the concept out there of doing something along these lines, but I think it makes a lot of sense - how to implement it is the key, and what aspects of the character does it impact?

 

[Pbartender]

It's an example of this general direction, at least. I wouldn't call it perfect--especially if you want to retain access to D&D/d20's great ocean of mechanical options--but it's the best implementation of generic classes I've seen yet.

Yep... That pretty much how I'd categorize it as well. Not exactly what he wants, but as close as you'll get with a D20 publication.

If he wanted to do as little work as possible, I start with True20 and go from there.

 

[FireLance]

But then why uses classes at all? There are much more elegant mechanics to accomplish the same end.

Class and level systems, especially systems with fairly easy multiclassing like 3.Xe, make good building blocks, allowing you to obtain packages of abilities that allow you to approximate the character you want with less granularity but also less complexity than point-based systems.

 

[Zaruthustran]

I really like this idea. I don't think I've ever seen someone put the concept out there of doing something along these lines, but I think it makes a lot of sense - how to implement it is the key, and what aspects of the character does it impact?

Thanks, man. The more I think about it, the more I like it too.

The combat roles, well, right now in 3.5 a character specced for Archery has to invest in so many feats, items, and so on that you can guarantee such a character will never swing a sword. He'll 5' step away, or take a full round to withdraw, or do *anything* in order to be able to use that bow. Same for melee guy. You can bet that the raging, power attacking, cleaving barbarian with all of his money sunk into a +5 vorpal greatsword isn't going to waste time with his 1d6 shortbow. D&D requires specialization in a distinct combat role. You're EITHER melee OR archery. Never both.

For the noncombat roles, well, why do these abilities have to be tied to your choice of fighting style? If spellcasting and dueling both require 10 hours/day of practice time, then both should allow full range of choices in noncombat capability. If I want to play a spellcaster that happens to be a fitness nut--a gen-X sorcerer with max ranks in climb, jump, and swim--then heck, why not?

 

[Quartz]

But then why uses classes at all? There are much more elegant mechanics to accomplish the same end.

Then D20 is not the game for you. To each their own; HERO is probably more to your liking.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaruthustran
You can't really make an effective tavern brawler guy, for example

I want a "Flurry of Chairs" class ability.

Myself, I prefer the "Mug Juggler" tree, but I have always been more finesse than brawl.