Playtest: managing per encounter abilities of a Rogue and Fighter

TerraDave · Oct 25, 2007

Nothing particularly new, but interesting to see more confirmation that yes, if there was any doubt, everone has per encounter and per day abilities. And it includes a bit of basic strategy.

From WotC_Peter S' blog (Wilbur is his fighter, Roger is his Rogue)

Wotc Peter S said:
[Generic expression of rage at this Gleemax having swallowed my attempt to post this twice.]

In very brief, given that I've wasted enough time trying to get this posted: I'm getting used to the rhythm of encounter/daily powers. Unless you have a distinct reason to hold onto an encounter power, your best bet is to unleash it in the first couple opening moves of an encounter. No sense holding onto it to see if it's needed, right? Better to use it fast to make sure you don't need to expend your long-term resources. There will definitely be times when you won't want to use encounter power after encounter power - you expect reinforcements, you want to throw them at the big-bad and there are minions in your way, etc. But I'm getting used to that feel.

Wilbur found his way out of the crypt by fighting a mass of rats and a rat-man, then a couple giant spiders, then by swimming through muck in an ancient sewer to get out. It was unpleasant.

Roger came within a millimeter of death while fighting kruthiks. Only the concerted efforts of the cleric and paladin kept him alive, and he's properly grateful. He's also exceptionally nervous now, and will be careful for a while... at least until he gets a good rest to relax after seeing one session and chargen flash before his eyes.

EDIT: it doesn't actually say "per day", but implies it. Of course, if this was 3.0, I would assume long-term resources means potions, scrolls, and item charges.

Doug McCrae · Oct 25, 2007

It will be interesting to see if any PCs die in the playtests. Don't think any have. How to handle death has always been the biggest and trickiest issue for us in 3e.

TerraDave · Oct 25, 2007

A fatality was mentioned in this post:

http://www.gleemax.com/Comms/Pages/Communities/BlogPost.aspx?blogpostid=15272&pagemode=2&blogid=7138

Discussed in this thread:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=210402

Actuallly, the charecter killed by hobgoblins, then killed again by goblin snipers.

Warbringer · Oct 25, 2007

"After the fight, I had the character respawn..."

I hope to hell this is playtest language only

Lackhand · Oct 25, 2007

I think it's not even playtest language: I forget where I read this, but to put the 3rd ed rules through their paces, didn't they treat D&D as a board game and play it against monsters as a skirmish game?

I think it's just as part of testing a rules widget, and will never see the light of (game) day.

Imaro · Oct 25, 2007

Peter S. said:
I'm getting used to the rhythm of encounter/daily powers. Unless you have a distinct reason to hold onto an encounter power, your best bet is to unleash it in the first couple opening moves of an encounter. No sense holding onto it to see if it's needed, right? Better to use it fast to make sure you don't need to expend your long-term resources. There will definitely be times when you won't want to use encounter power after encounter power - you expect reinforcements, you want to throw them at the big-bad and there are minions in your way, etc. But I'm getting used to that feel.

This, especially the bolded portion, worries me slightly. I experienced this with Star Wars saga ed. (particularly) with jedi. They would unleash their force powers from most powerful to least powerful and then engage the enemy (if any were left) in melee. The problem was that it got kind of tedious after a while. I could almost script the combat actions my players would take before combat began. Could I neutralize thier tactics, sure by setting up situations where their powers were less effective or useless. But this type of heavy-handed solution also feels scripted after a while (and is actually in it's own way form of limitation to challenging encounters). I was hoping that D&D 4e would require a little more strategy than...unleash per encounter as quickly as possible then falk back on at-will or per-day...but by the hints in this playtest that is what combat may be boiling down to.

Thornir Alekeg · Oct 25, 2007

Better to use it fast to make sure you don't need to expend your long-term resources.

This line confuses me a little. Why would not using your per encounter abilities early lead to needing to use long-term resources? If you still have the per encounter resource available to you, why can't it be used later to the same effect?

Scenario 1:
Encounter power attack
Attack
Attack
Oh, crap! Long-term resource power attack!

Scenario 2:
Attack
Attack
Crap! Encounter power attack
Holy crap! Long-term resource power attack

TerraDave · Oct 25, 2007

Imaro said:
with Star Wars saga ed. (particularly) with jedi. They would unleash their force powers from most powerful to least powerful and then engage the enemy (if any were left) in melee.

It actually kinda sounds like the movies.

As for D&D, you already the tendency of casting your best spell first...though now I guess it won't just be for spellcasters.

Thornir Alekeg · Oct 25, 2007

TerraDave said:
It actually kinda sounds like the movies.

As for D&D, you already the tendency of casting your best spell first...though now I guess it won't just be for spellcasters.

I didn't tend to use my best spell first. If anything I tended to work in the opposite direction. Hold back my best spells while the party had HP and healing to burn. Save those really good spells for the "Oh, S

t!" moment when HP and healing were running out and I knew we would have to rest up soon.

Imaro · Oct 25, 2007

Thornir Alekeg said:
This line confuses me a little. Why would not using your per encounter abilities early lead to needing to use long-term resources? If you still have the per encounter resource available to you, why can't it be used later to the same effect?

Scenario 1:
Encounter power attack
Attack
Attack
Oh, crap! Long-term resource power attack!

Scenario 2:
Attack
Attack
Crap! Encounter power attack
Holy crap! Long-term resource power attack

It's funny, but I think I can answer this, from experience with SW saga and Final Fantasy videogames. If you unleash a powerful attack early it causes more damage and, if focused on one opponent, there is a greater likelihood of one of your opponents dropping earlier in the fight...thus their damage potential is reduced (over time) and it's less likely they will cause as much harm. Think of it this way...

Scenario 1: vs. 3 goblins
Encounter power attack auto-kill one now only two can actually try to hit you and you take less damage on avg per round
Attack
Attack
Oh, crap! Long-term resource power attack!

Scenario 2: vs. 3 goblins
Attack If this doesn't drop one you now have to take 3 attacks against you and you're taking higher amounts of damage that are more likely to put you in a precarious position
Attack
Crap! Encounter power attack
Holy crap! Long-term resource power attack

Playtest: managing per encounter abilities of a Rogue and Fighter

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024

Doug McCrae

Legend

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024

Warbringer

Explorer

Lackhand

First Post

Imaro

Legend

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!

TerraDave

5ever, or until 2024

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!

Imaro

Legend

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