4e Heroic Souls (FULL/CLOSED - accepting alts)

A player driven roleplaying-oriented "ExtremePoL" 4e PbP game starting at first level.


This is the discussion/interest thread for a game based on the above premise. There is no advantage to rushing to post so please look at the FAQ first.

If you'd like to talk about the games direction you can also see this thread.

[sblock=Character Template]
updated 4-28
Each item should be a sentence or two.

Name Everyone has one, simple name (no family names)
Color Pick a color; your speech will be in this color. [sblock=Color]Please don't take red or blue.

(I surf the boards on stealth so my preference is for a dark color, or or one that contrasts well with the light gray of the boards (i.e. Please god no one take wheat or gold).
[/sblock]
Race usually human (see 2.2 in the FAQ)
Intended Class Core only (see 2.3 in the FAQ)
Attributes Standard point buy (PhB method 2 but using 25 points. [sblock=Technically]you start with 15, 9, 13, 13, 10, 12 but everyone will start at 1st level with a heroic soul or become first level very soon; so don't worry about pre-exalted stats[/sblock]
Hit points per PhB
Appearance
Background
Your Family/Neighbors They're affected by a curse, but that doesn't mean they are boring
How do you spend your days (when you're dazed) this can be a simple profession you engage in, some bizarre behavior you compulsively follow (trying to read books even though you can't read, circumnavigating the town's boundary)
Relationship [sblock=The Relationships Mechanism -- optional; we can come back to it later]
(This was going to be unnecessarily complex, I've tried to grind it down to something simple).
Pick one other person in the party that your character has some sort of strong emotion toward. It can be simple (trusted friend) or complex (envy tinged with love and regret).

It isn't overwhelming; it doesn't need to make sense.

If this doesn't make sense pick something simple and don't worry about it. don't worry about it now. If nobody likes it we'll just dump the whole thing. [/sblock]
Some things you're good at A few skills, or just things you're good at; if they're minor things (ex: hunting rats in an urban area, you can be very good at them (+10ish)
Hooks Quick list of your hooks; if you've explained them elsewhere then one or two words is fine (the girl by the river, the old woman, my lost older sister)]


[sblock=Childhood experiences -- optional; we can come back to it later]
Some of this will be mediated, so we'll go backward and forward on it.

• Did you ever try to visit Big Green Eyes? Did you ever run into Big Green Eyes by accident (if so what was your situation?)
  
• What did you get for your glowing pebble? Or what happened if you never gave it to the Geeche.
  [sblock=The pebble and the Geeche]Sometimes children find a little glowing rock (a pebble really) when you're out playing. It's a well known fact among the children that you take your rock to the Geeche's tower when the sun is touching the horizon there will be an old bucket there. If you place the pebble in the old bucket the Geeche will draw it up to his window and then lower the bucket down with something in return.
  When you took your rock to the Geeche what did he give you? (it can be miraculous or mundane, though miraculous things only last for a night before turning into something that's, apparently, quite normal).
  [Some children keep their rock for a while, but generally speaking the chance of getting something amazing for it is irresistible (and even if they do resist there is intense peer pressure from the other kids -- Your glowing pebble is interesting really only for you, but if you get something awesome from the Geeche then everybody gets to see it.
  People still talk about the riding frog that that one girl got). ]
  
  Generally, once you found your pebble, whatever you did with it, you became an adolescent soon there after, and fell more or less fully under the daze. -If- you managed to hide it away and not turn it into the Geeche you have a small, normal looking rock. If it got lost then it got lost.
  [sblock=PS]I think everybody on this thread already appreciates this but, there is -no- "right answer". One is one kind of story, another is another kind of story.[/sblock]

[/sblock][/sblock]

The game will start off with roleplaying, we'll slowly introduce 4e mechanics as the characters progress. The only thing you really need to play is a strong concept.The game is close to "starting" with everyone at 1st level and beginning an adventure. We have slots for non-defenders (especially controllers).We're closed now. You can create an alt if you like though...

You DON'T need to read this whole thread. You can just skim the character creation template (and the faq if you feel like it) and post your proposed character.

There are some differences from a standard DnD world. There are no gods (they've been completely forgotten, even their names), and everyone in the starting town is illiterate (these are both hinted at in the text above, but I thought I'd make it explicit).

(The second) IC thread
Character Thread

Faq

If you find the FAQ a bit overwhelming I suggest looking at 0.0 (Glossary), 0.2 (what to expect) and 0.3 (the process by which the game will start).

If you're interested in joining us all you really need to do is read 0.9 (expectations of players) and 0.11 (what sort of players won't enjoy the game) and fill out the character template. The more of the FAQ/thread (especially 1.0 The World) you've read the easier filling out the template will be, but don't sweat it too much.


The FAQ
[sblock=0 Meta stuff]

0.0 Glossary

• player driven -- the players will decide what happens, there are a few set pieces that will get trotted out but generally it's up to you to motivate your characters, go out, explore and decide what you want to do
  ALSO the starting area will be designed using player input (ideally as much as possible); if people can't help making the starting down the game probably won't start
• roleplaying-oriented -- there will be fighting (I loves me some combat, and I plan on throughly testing 4e), but a major chunk of the the action will be defined by the characters choices, interaction with each other and NPCs, etc.
• "Extreme PoL" -- There is -one- point of light in the world that you know of when the game begins. Your town. You're the only player character classed people in your town. As far as you now there's no kingdom you're a part of, no far off city you can call on for aid, nothing like that.
  This doesn't mean constant hard-core action. If you're looking for that you need to meet Jurgen.
• 4e -- We're using the 4e core rules
  [sblock=But they aren't out yet!!!!1111]
  Yes I know they aren't out, but between getting the town built, getting the initial group of characters together, having them rp a bit, maybe do some stuff around town (skill checks, decide what they want to do), having people "PC up" (pick their player class) they'll probably just starting to getting into some serious action when June 6th rolls around.
  I could be off by a week one way or the other. But PbP runs slow, so I don't think we'll be waiting around to too long.
  
  Anyway, I'm not really ready to start, but I want player input before I get to locked in.[/sblock]
• Story Reasons -- I usually say "story reasons" as an explanation for something when there is a reason for something that has to do with a secret or game-related-effect that I want the group to discover in character. You can read it as "There is a reason, I don't want to tell you, but trust me, I think it's interesting."
• quarantine zone/boundary -- an invisible insubstantial mental effect that rings the town and prevents people in the town from leaving; discussed in more detail below
• the daze/disease of the mind -- a magical effect that strikes when children hit their teens, it turns people into passive automatons; see "disease of the mind" (starts at 1.2)
• Heroic Soul -- something all PCs will acquire that makes them classed characters; see 1.3

0.1 Where did this game idea come from
[under construction] -- short answer an email conversation with some buddies

0.1.1 I've been thinking about doing something like this since 3.0. SKR mentioned a game (run by MC?) where the PCs were the first people in a new world.
I -think- Jonathan Tweet did something similar? The PCs were the first of the young gods maybe?
Anyway, some sort of adventure would be in order.

0.2 What can we expect?
Initially, brainstorming followed by a lot of roleplaying. Once we've developed the town, built connections between the players, the characters selected to be in the first party will fully awaken their heroic soul it'll shift to a -more- traditional DnD type game. It'll follow all the DnD rules and most, if not all, of the usual conventions (gradual leveling as you defeat opponents and achieve your goals, exploration, dungeons (some non-traditional, some traditional), etc.

0.3 Lay out the process for me.

0.4 How much freedom will we have?
Within the game? A lot. I won't promise sand-box, because I think that's a big promise, but pretty close.
In character generation? Less. The characters have to fit the world. Personality, behavior, etc. are all yours to decide. You can also pick from any appropriate 4e mechanics and write your own fluff, subject to my approval. (see below)

0.5 The intro seems like it has some sort of mutants/weirdly appearing people.... is this gonna get SciFi?
No. It's pretty much your standard, PoL with some weirdness mixed in. No guns, etc. See the world section below for the explanations for why the races are set up the way they are.

0.6 So is this your homebrew?
No. I'm not a homebrewer really. I'm a "published settings fiend" actually (currently Eberron). The world has a degree of development to it, some key points are laid out, but it's not developed really.
It's a sort of anti-homebrew in the sense that it's not being built up in advance (beyond some key events, actors, magical effects, etc)
I imagine that I'll open a thread on the Plots and Places thread if this takes off (I think that's what they're calling the old Rogues thread).

0.7 Why not Eberron?
I was tortured and tormented. I guess I have to say I was taken with the idea, and it's much easier to run. Some of the conventions (i.e. the disease of the mind, for instance) will make it easier to have players drop the game and come back, without having to struggle and strain to keep the "plot" on track.
If I get it right the PCs -are- the plot; the "disappearing player" will effectively "turn off" their character when they go them.
This means less work for me, more immersion for the players and hopefully more fun for all.

0.8 What sort of DM are you?
My simulationist and narritivist sides war constantly. I appreciate gamist viewpoints in the abstract but beyond basic considerations of fairness and appreciation that DnD is, at it's core, about beating up bad guys and getting more powerful, gamism isn't a big consideration.
If that paragraph confused you then think about it like this i) I want the world and the events that occur within it (including PC actions) to be inherently consistent AND ii) I also want to tell interesting/fun/cool stories. I understand DnD is also a game, and some people like winning/having the most powerful character/etc. but I don't think it excuses behavior that would violate i or ii.

The best way to get a feel for my style is too look at my vampire game.
This game will be less talky and hopefully have few or no dominant NPC types bossing PCs around (a bit of a failing in WoD to my mind).

0.9 What are your expectations of players

• Be cool with the other players (and me)
• Post once every 24 hours on weekdays
• Help develop the town
• Play in character, support the attempts of others to play in character (respond to other people's comments, etc)
• Accept my rulings (I love debate, so I don't usually tend to "rule" on something, but I can also be mulishly stubborn -- if we go back and forth a few times I expect you to be able to a) work with me to find a common ground if that fails I expect you to be able b) accept that in this particular game world things work the way that I say so)
• Not read any Plots and Places threads related to the game

0.10 You a jerk about anything?
[under construction]0.11 What sort of players won't enjoy this game

• People who aren't comfortable reading big blocks of text (I try my best, but I really am "brevity impaired")
  [sblock=Not a native English speaker?]Let me know, if you like and I'll try to make sure can participate and don't feel excluded. I don't promise miracles of course, but I've been the "non-native speaker" a lot over the course of my life and I respect that it requires compromise by both parties.[/sblock]
• People who don't like to roleplay.
• People who always like to have their character make "the best move".
• If you play DnD like DDM you'll absolutely hate playing with me. (I'm not saying most DDM players play DnD like DDM, but if you do, you really won't enjoy me as a DM.)
• People who hate having questions asked about their characters. I almost always ask questions. If that sort of give and take bothers you you'll really really hate playing with me.

0.12 there is no 0.12
[/sblock]

[sblock=1. The world]


1.1 Was once a more-or-less bog standard DnD world. Some time ago something happened and things got very messed up. The game is about the PCs in the world, finding out what happened and what they do about it.

1.2 The disease of the mind. Unless you have the soul of a hero you are affected by a disease of the mind. It prevents you from leaving the town. Most of the time it also puts people in a kind of trance-like a daze. When you're dazed you function normally (smile to their neighbors, feed their children

1.2.1 Effects of the daze (in terms of roleplaying)

• dazed people can't lie; they speak in simple, completely honest sentences and usually can't consider the feelings of others.
• They tend to go about their activities almost mindlessly, a baker bakes, even if no-one comes to eat their bread, they pile it on the window.
• People, generally, aren't greedy. They take what they need and offer what they make for any who want it. There is no money to speak of.
• Violence is extremely rare. The daze makes it hard for people to get mad.
• Almost everyone shakes off the daze, at least to a degree, a few times in their life. They manage to get married, learn a trade, and function in society, but little more.
• The daze is weaker on children, and much weaker also on people who could have the soul of the hero (unless their player stops posting, or leaves the game)

[sblock=example with a mother and child]
A child: Why do the other children avoid me?
Mother: You're ugly dear.
Child cries.
Some small part of the mother wants to reach out to take the child in her arms, to tell her she's loved and everything is fine. But most of the time she's just not strong enough. So the mother reaches out and gently rests her arm on her crying child's cheek for a minute before turning to stir the stewpot.

Note: Though it is not an effect of the daze, per se, no one in the town can read.

[/sblock]

1.2.2 Is there a metagame reason for this whole disease of the mind?
Yes. These include
a) Story reasons
b) <forgot what I was going to put here>
c) I don't have to develop an entire world in one shot
d) It plausibly explains why your characters don't know anything about the world beyond the towns borders/the past/etc
e) It lets me "pull" characters out of the world when players stop posting with minimal disruption:

1.3 The soul of the hero
This is what gives the PCs classes, allows them to gain levels, allows them to (mostly) shake of the disease of the mind (and leave the town), grants them all their action points, lets them use magic items, and probably does some other things.
It doesn't have a particularly obvious physical sign, (you don't glow or anything), but certain NPCs will be able to sense your heroic soul.
You can think of it as a weaker version of exaltation from Exalted.

1.6 Status Quo Encounters
[under construction]
[/sblock]


[sblock=2. The rules]
2.1 Core 4 rules mechanics

2.2 Races
You can play humans, or half-elves (but you're related to one half-elvin family). I can work in Tieflings or maybe Dragonborn if there's interest.

2.3 Classes
All classes are available, but fiendish warlock fluff is embargoed. You can use that crunch with some other fluff and minor mechancial changes (fire warlock, a psionic blaster who pushes people about with his/her mind).

2.4 Can I use something I made up?
No. Must be core. You can massage fluff to make it different, but that's it.

2.5 Magic Items
[under construction -- there will probably be "few" magic items
There are story reasons for this.]

2.6 Impact of Magic Item "few-ness"?
[under construction -- Obviously hard to talk about in detail without rules.
Impact of magical items will be minimized by applying a set of static bonuses as characters level -- characters will receive a fixed set of bonuses (per Mike Mearls) provided by their Heroic Souls.
Magic items people do find will "level up" with PCs (so they're always the right power level for their wielder)

There is the potential for alternate kinds of magic items (ex: if the characters can manage to contact gods or similar entities they might receive "blessings" that function like magic items)]

[/sblock]

3. Character Creation template
(see first post of the thread)

[sblock=4. The town]

4.0 [sblock=The original quick overview]Is the town detailed?
No. I like to have players design the place they start in (i.e. design the town, or most of it). It lets them make an impression on the world, help create the environment that shapes their characters.With player input the town is starting to get detailed.

I imagine four to six neighborhoods. Split up by odd black walls. There is probably a river that runs through town, and down to a swamp at the edge. There is no militia, because of the daze violence is extremely rare. No-one one leaves the town, no one remembers anyone entering.

You can pitch in ideas for a neighborhood; ideally each one has it's own character, unusual traits, etc.
You can pitch in ideas for specific people/places/other[/sblock]The town has been developed to a fairly large degree already, you can try to work your way through the thread, or just ask questions if you're confused.

My goal is to get key information about the town up here, but it may take some time.
[/sblock]

ooc - POL singular

Graf, an interesting idea. I'm going to have to yoink your simulationist/narrativist/gamist spiel.

OK, just thinking out loud here.

My first thought was that this had a very Grimm's sort of feel - dark german gothic. It would also work well as a feudal Japanese setting I think. Japanese towns give you little walled quarters and canals. Either way, you should throw in a small castle or fort, and maybe a temple or two. Putting it on the coast could work - allows for odd things to appear on the shore. Or in the mountains. Lots of wondering bad things in the mountains, and not too many passers by,

The area encompassed needs to be large enough to make it self sustaining, food wise especially. There probably should be a mine in there as well to provide iron for blacksmithing.

What is the state of awareness of the PC's? I think that this is a key question. If they are aware that they are locked in, then the first thing the players are going to want to do is get the hell out. That will become the driving force of the game. In which case, it seems to me, there would need to be something like a series of tasks they need to compete (information learned, items obtained etc) to do so.

If they are not aware, then the initial parts of the game can evolve around their developing awareness. Interesting to play, but hard to run I think. Not sure how I would go about that.

What sort of outside forces are at play in the area? Without anything, things could be a little 'meh'. Everyone just wonders around, doing their own thing and generally getting along with each other. Not a lot for a player to sink their teeth into. Allowing 'monsters' to get through the barrier would give the PC's something to do, as well as provide evidence of a 'beyond'.

EDIT - reread the first post. So the PC's will know about their situation. Which brings me back to an earlier point - there is not a hell of a lot to do in the area apart from try and get the hell out of dodge. Perhaps that's what you envisage, in which case its not really a problem.

To make it player driven through, it seems that you will need lots of 'leads' for them to pursue. A temple library potentially holding clues (can the PC's read? From P1, it seems that they can not). On old mystic out in the wilds. A forbidden area. Goblins in the sewers who know something. Secret rooms in the castle, defended by magic (undead) guards.

But no stirges please.

Anyway. There are some thoughts. Hope that they help.

doghead
aka thotd

Ooh – this sounds fun. And like a good starting point for 4e for those like me who don’t have a regular gaming group.

The character below assumes that there is at least some country side built into the area of “quarantine”, if you will. The reasoning – food. It’s got to grow somewhere nearby if we can’t go outside the circle, right?

Name: Alexander
Appearance: Tall, strapping lad, who just turned 20. A muscular 6’3”, with a physique molded by long hours spent plowing in the fields. Typically wears overalls and a straw hat (are overalls appropriate here?)

Background: Alexander was born to on the farm. His father had been farming the land and providing wheat to the city for as long as anyone can remember. He was raised to farm, and has never expected to do anything else, until recently.

Your Family/Neighbors: His father, Michael, was born in the same house as Alexander. He’s a farmer, and his father before him was a farmer. His mother, Ansley, was raised in the city, the daughter of the town baker. One day, she decided that she was going to marry the young man (Michael) who delivered the wheat to her father. And that was that. Alexander has a younger 16 year old sister, (name to be determined), who spends all her free time reading. How she learned to read, and where she got the books has never come up, although it’s probably a good question.

How do spend your days: Farming. It’s Alexander’s life and all he’s known. He has occasionally wondered what’s in those books his sister reads, and what exactly is on the other side of the stream that runs on the edge of his property. He draws water from it daily to feed the animals, but has never been able to make it all the way across to the far bank. Of late, he’s felt a stronger and stronger urge to break out of the monotony that is every day life in (city name). He wonders about the dreariness that seems to affect everyone he knows, and he’s becoming more and more ready to do something about it.

Relationships:

Some things you're good at: Farming, animal husbandry, silently observing things

Intended Class: Probably Ranger, maybe Fighter.

Note – I’ve left my sister’s name blank, if anyone wants to use her as a pc. If not, I’ll name her later on.

Is that along the lines of what you’re looking for?

doghead said:

Graf, an interesting idea. I'm going to have to yoink your simulationist/narrativist/gamist spiel.

Click to expand...

doghead said:

OK, just thinking out loud here.

Click to expand...

Please, brainstorming by myself only goes so far.

doghead said:

My first thought was that this had a very Grimm's sort of feel - dark german gothic. It would also work well as a feudal Japanese setting I think. Japanese towns give you little walled quarters and canals. Either way, you should throw in a small castle or fort, and maybe a temple or two.

Click to expand...

A bit, I think, my intent is for interactions to have a bit of an iconic feel. (does that make -any- sense?

I think I want to say pseudo western european/gothic.

[sblock=Japan]
I have a sorta Japan thing going. Speak it. Lived there for years. My wife is Japanese (just going chronologically -- she's the most important of course). etc etc

I ran a game once set in an excessively detailed pseudo-feudal mythological Japan with all my Tokyo gaming buddies. They created awesome characters, really worked with me to fit them into the setting.

The game? It sucked.
I was just too locked into how specific the setting was, what was OK, how society would react, blah blah blah.
It was the last "true homebrew" I ran (i.e. where the world was made up in advance).
[/sblock]

doghead said:

The area encompassed needs to be large enough to make it self sustaining, food wise especially. There probably should be a mine in there as well to provide iron for blacksmithing.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking that the society will be more ruined, anarchistic.
[edit: I may be going to far in this direction though...]

Like, there is a mill, and they grow wheat, or something similar somewhere (possibly grown magically directly (magical bag o' wheat?), possibly grown indirectly through magic (I'll post something about this in a minute), or grown subsistence farming style.

It's possible that some of their farming implements will be minorly magical (in the sense the they have a bunch of hoes that never go dull or rust), so that they don't worry about making new ones.

doghead said:

What is the state of awareness of the PC's? I think that this is a key question. If they are aware that they are locked in, then the first thing the players are going to want to do is get the hell out. That will become the driving force of the game. In which case, it seems to me, there would need to be something like a series of tasks they need to compete (information learned, items obtained etc) to do so.

EDIT - reread the first post. So the PC's will know about their situation. Which brings me back to an earlier point - there is not a hell of a lot to do in the area apart from try and get the hell out of dodge. Perhaps that's what you envisage, in which case its not really a problem.

Click to expand...

Basically yeah. The most important actions revolve around leaving.

I'm leaning in the direction of: the latent soul of the hero within them makes them capable of shaking off the daze.

Again, still brainstorming. It may be different for different people.

[edit: see also the 2nd post after this one]

doghead said:

If they are not aware, then the initial parts of the game can evolve around their developing awareness. Interesting to play, but hard to run I think. Not sure how I would go about that.

Click to expand...

The daze is specifically a bit vague. Some people are dazed all their lives more or less consistently. Other people swing in and out day-by-day. Other people may shake off the daze completely for a year or two and then swing back in.

I wouldn't run it, really. My intention is for it to be PC driven. [edit; So if you want to be completely dazed, or dazed in some sort of strange way (you obsessively walk the circumference of the town, right on the border), that's all cool.
Or you're just not very dazed at all.

doghead said:

What sort of outside forces are at play in the area? Without anything, things could be a little 'meh'. Everyone just wonders around, doing their own thing and generally getting along with each other. Not a lot for a player to sink their teeth into. Allowing 'monsters' to get through the barrier would give the PC's something to do, as well as provide evidence of a 'beyond'.

Click to expand...

Obviously I have ideas.
I didn't want to prejudge before I had players and a dialog with them.

Historically my games have been... a bit full. Too many different NPCs, groups, counter-groups, counter-counter-counter-groups floating around. The PCs simultaneously having three different plot threads to follow all of which have their own count-downs, staged events, escalating threat levels, assassination squads searching for the characters,....

My new policy is basically, "Whenever possible instead of making up another mid-level bad guy, with his own organization/city/off-world strong hold, try to make something the PCs could conceivably encounter and move toward resolution within the next few sessions".

I realize I'm [edit:not] communicating specifics very well. And that can make character generation tricky, but, I'd like, if possible to have character generation help push me a bit.

doghead said:

To make it player driven through, it seems that you will need lots of 'leads' for them to pursue. A temple library potentially holding clues (can the PC's read? From P1, it seems that they can not). On old mystic out in the wilds. A forbidden area. Goblins in the sewers who know something. Secret rooms in the castle, defended by magic (undead) guards.

Click to expand...

I agree.
I have a confession and a point to make.

The confession:1 When I do that I tend to play favorites a bit. So long as something is vague then it's qualities are amorphous; If I firm things up then a narrative starts to develop in my head.

[sblock=For Example]
Lets say I decide that an old undead knight is nearby, and every night he rises and fights the same undead skeletons in the same battle, and after he wins he sits around in the graveyard and is all emo. If the PCs are sneaky/clever/rp well and do X then they'll get Y from him...

There is an evil necromancer, nearby, keeping the knight alive (or undead and cursed) because of an ancient curse. If the party gets Y from the knight then they'll have a great advantage when the fight the necromancer.

If they kill the necro first it's a hard but boring battle, maybe he monologes a bit but really even with a lot of effort he'll probably turn into a bag of forgettable xp. And they never see the knight, when they get to the graveyard the curse is broken.
If they do it in reverse order: they find out about the necro, understand the world a little bit more, get to rp with the knight, etc.

In my experience sometimes gently nudging people in a certain direction works brilliantly. In other times the group (or, more likely a specific player) picks up on it and digs their feet in. Every time some NPC mentions the "rumors of a ghostly battlefield" they loudly assert that "it's probably something epic, like a tarrasque, it'll suck this necromancer sounds easy, lets take care of him first".

I'm what the player says for comic effect of course.
[/sblock]

The problem with a narrative is that you, instinctively, want to push people toward it. "It'll be a better story that way, you don't want them to die against a powerful monster, but you want the monster to be powerful, so giving them a temporary boost in exchange for roleplaying/cunning decision making becomes attractive.

And you can always re-write things so that the necromancer is different, or the knight is different or what have you. But the simulationist in me sometimes revolts and I wind up being inflexible.
So the confession is that I don't want to start writing out too much specific stuff and get too far ahead of the PCs. I do that and pretty soon I'll have all of the first three levels mapped out.

The point: is not really fair because the FAQ doesn't include enough information for you to have even guessed this is that, since the players have designed most of the town, they will, in essence, be setting up the methods of their exaltation (i.e. the acquisition of their heroic soul).
At an extreme (that I don't think I would be so interested in running) if there is -nothing- to do then, obviously, leaving the town/exalting is going to be fairly simple.

Just to throw out an example: if someone makes up a "dark cave under town that no-one goes to; something lives in it and comes out at night to steal children" and I say "that sounds cool" and it goes in the world and people start roleplaying about how their sister has disappeared and take their characters in there then we might run some sort of mini-combat using the PhB lite book (or whatever).

Someone else could just roleplay with themselves and, if they do a good job, wind up exalting while talking to themselves in front of a mirror.

One each of these are very cool ideas. My responses reflect my own initial impression of the setting, I'm not married to anything I'm saying per se. My responses just reflect me touching on different issues and chewing them over.

doghead said:

A temple library potentially holding clues (can the PC's read? From P1, it seems that they can not).

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Can't read at the start of the game. Upon exaltation you'll be able to do everything your character can normally do. Which means read/write/etc. ([edit: at least it meant that in 3.5 and I expect it'll mean that in 4.0.]
(That doesn't mean you'll be able to read all of the books in the temple, but you'll be the only people you know who can read and write).

Of course, if someone put a temple in and said, "my character spends every day, from dawn till dusk, in the temple staring at these little scribbles" then I would be obliged as a DM to react to it.

doghead said:

On old mystic out in the wilds.

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It's entirely possible that either a PC has seen, or there is a persistent rumor (passed by the relatively undazed, or by a persistent dazed person who rumormongers) of some sort of figure visible in the distance.

doghead said:

A forbidden area.

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A classic idea. Vague though.

doghead said:

Goblins in the sewers who know something.

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I do have a plan for there to be something weird floating around who "knows something (or at least pretends to".
One of my design goals is to have a "starting area" that doesn't involve a lot of NPC interaction.

doghead said:

Secret rooms in the castle, defended by magic (undead) guards.

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My instinct is to say "no castle". But now that I think about it a partially ruined castle would make a fantastic zone.
Maybe some dazed guardsmen, who guard the big front gate that dominates the center square, the same way their father's did. Their weapons have rusted, sometimes they can shake off the daze and think "what are we doing?"
The best of them stop being guards and take up more meaningful roles, but a few fall back to the daze.

doghead said:

But no stirges please.

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I actually had a terrible experience with stirges in someone's homebrew once. But they aren't bad monsters...
But this is actually one way where I have willing to flex; if a player doesn't like stirges then you'll travel the length and breadth of the continent and never run into them.
(If you don't like dragons though then we may have a problem...)

doghead said:

Anyway. There are some thoughts. Hope that they help.

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They were fantastic.

Above and beyond being useful themselves I hadn't really considered the whole situation in the context of "medieval town". (Bizarre I realize)

I'm getting pretty attached to the castle idea pretty quickly (even if it's not exactly what you were looking for). That'd be great.

[edit: and walls/canals is growing on me too.]

d'Anconia said:

Ooh – this sounds fun. And like a good starting point for 4e for those like me who don’t have a regular gaming group.

Is that along the lines of what you’re looking for?

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Yup. I think you get an 11/10!
(the extra point is for the sister thing... which is the sort of thing I wanted but don't think I actually articulated properly)

The sheet is still under construction, so there will be a few more lines but you're good to go if you're interested in participating (which I take from your post that you probably are).

We'll need to have the town actually sketched out before people can start-start of course.

d'Anconia said:

Ooh – this sounds fun. And like a good starting point for 4e for those like me who don’t have a regular gaming group.

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That is also the intent. Ease our way in. Depending on people's choices there may some 'pre-exalted action'.
(My inclination is to say it'll be pretty limited but I don't want to fight it if player choice creates some sort of situation like that.)

d'Anconia said:

The character below assumes that there is at least some country side built into the area of “quarantine”, if you will. The reasoning – food. It’s got to grow somewhere nearby if we can’t go outside the circle, right?

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I've been fighting this but for the life of me I can't explain why.
Yeah sure there is some farmland, there are individual plots inside of the town proper and also a relatively large "farm zone" in which your farm rests.

d'Anconia said:

Note – I’ve left my sister’s name blank, if anyone wants to use her as a pc. If not, I’ll name her later on.

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This is exactly what I was shooting for with the relationships.

Because I'm that sort of guy there's a process I'd like people to follow when building relationships. I'll put that into the FAQ.

Just wanted to touch on one thing. This is sort of prentenious but, whatever, I'm the DM I get to be a bit pretentious.

Doghead said:

- there is not a hell of a lot to do in the area apart from try and get the hell out of dodge.

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The other reason why I don't want there to be "nothing" to do is "the tradgety of the alts".

I've seen a few games that are otherwise awesome have trouble with efficiently acquiring players. Logos' DiV/ S@s' Against the Giants springs immediately to mind.

Logos, bless his trusting little heart, let people into his DiV game on rpg.net on a first come first serve basis. The people who post first though don't necessarily have follow through. So you start, you open you close, the game tries to start, then you don't have people posting, some people have dropped/some are just delayed, you have to figure out which is which, then you reopen, people you rejected last time have sometimes moved on, you have figure out whether you want to open a new thread or try to ressurect the old one, etc it's kinda rather painful.

The other, probably better way, is a sort of beauty contest. S@s did this. You reopen, set a time frame, have people make characters, pick the people you think'll work out, and so on.

But its a lot of work, some people won't get picked, the DM has to stop the game, there are questions about existing player-less PCs.

And even in S@s you don't have any real guarantee that you won't have to do it again in a month or so. (It's not that I think that there's anything wrong with people dropping, it happens).

This is why I'm toying around with the, 'everybody who's interested make an character they exist in the world' thing.

So, if we loose a player then I have this pre-existing 'alt thread'. Somebody's been posting (maybe only once or twice a week, just a line or two), they have a character, the other PCs know this character, they have a reason to hang out.

So I wave my magic DM wand and "the next morning as you break camp X's brother Alexander walks over the hill"
Alexander, "Dear Sister! Three nights ago, I had a dream that you were in trouble. Upon awakening I realized who I truly was!
The hermit of the woods told me you were heading this way and I've traveled all night and all day to catch up with you!"

At least that's the theory.

Of course posting as a 1st level classless PC in a town with nothing to do isn't interesting. It's actually fairly sucky. Obviously, people who do post every few days something like, "Alexander harvests another few days worth of crop. One day he shakes off the daze for a day or two and tries to go down to the edge of the town to look in the direction his sister departed. His friends have long disappeared from sight though." Are -very- motivated.

But if the town has interesting stuff to do in it then, you know, a post a week or two isn't hard really.

If 4e is really as easy to run as it's being billed as then it might be possible to have a second group, at which point it would be convenient to have a deeper pool of characters, etc. etc.

Probably shouldn't have called it the tragedy of the alt (maybe the monotony of the alt?)

Just riffing here.

ooc - PoL single

Graf said:

Please, brainstorming by myself only goes too far.

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Yeah, I get this. I work much better with feedback, especially critical feedback and new or alternate ideas.

Graf said:

A bit, I think, my intent is for interactions to have a bit of an iconic feel. (does that make -any- sense?)

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Not really sure what you mean.

Graf said:

I think I want to say pseudo western european/gothic.

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This I get. It presents a much lower barrier to entry. And people do tend to get caught up in verisimilitude concerns with more historical settings. Of course, pseudo medieval European settings are historical in a way, but the territory has been so richly worked that people are more comfortable with the 'pseudo' element.

[sblock=Japan]Me too. Nearly four years in Tokyo, then nearly four in Fukuoka. Karatsu jo is one of my favourites - and the image of it came to mind when thinking about the setting. My Japanese is not so good though - I've never really been able to keep languages once I stop using them.

How is Singapore? I've passed through heaps of times, but never seen the city. I always meant to take one of the tours, but after stretching my legs, having a massage or swim, then getting a meal, the time seems to have disappeared.[/sblock]

Graf said:

I'm thinking that the society will be more ruined, anarchistic.
[edit: I may be going to far in this direction though...]

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Graf said:

I've been fighting this [including farmland] but for the life of me I can't explain why. Yeah sure there is some farmland, there are individual plots inside of the town proper and also a relatively large section in which your farm rests.

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You could eliminate farmland through the use of create food and water spells. This would could actually alleviate the need for most labour, milling, baking would also be unnecessary. But then people would not have much to do, which would create a whole different feel. Magical enhancement of fields, on the other hand, could mean only a small area is needed to sustain the population. Limiting the area could mean that there was enough, but not a lot. You can still have the 'subsistence feel'. Much of the metal worked can come from recycling old material. Tools break and are repaired, no one every really asks where they came from in the first place.

Edit: A|State is a game based around a similar premise. There is a single city than no one ever leaves or enters. Its on a much larger scale, but it might be a useful read. IIRC, it was available as a free .pdf download - Team 8 or Something Cubical, Cubical Something games. It had a very sepia tone as well.

Graf said:

The daze is specifically a bit vague. Some people are dazed all their lives more or less consistently. Other people swing in and out day-by-day. Other people may shake off the daze completely for a year or two and then swing back in.

I wouldn't run it, really. My intention is for it to be PC driven.

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But you obviously have to be the arbiter of how the PC's actions affect their situation, how it contributes to (or detracts from even) the gaining of their heroic soul

Graf said:

When I do that I tend to play favorites a bit. So long as something is vague then it's qualities are amorphous; If I firm things up then a narrative starts to develop in my head. ...

The problem with a narrative is that you, instinctively, want to push people toward it.

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Yeah, the old writer instincts kick in. I understand this. I was (am?) guilty of it for a long time, and I think that my games suffered as a result. I go a good bit of advice from Fajitas of Welcome to the Halmea fame. He said that he stopped trying to build in solution sets to his encounters. I reaslised that that was what I had been doing - and then unconsciously guiding the players to those specific solutions. Its hard at first, you tend to worry that the PC's are going to get stuck. But so far I have found that players can be quite inventive and generally manage to sort things out.

Graf said:

I'm getting pretty attached to the castle idea pretty quickly (even if it's not exactly what you were looking for). That'd be great.

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I wasn't really looking for anything, just throwing out possible potential places of interest. My inclination would be to ask everyone to throw at least one idea into the ring. You may not use them (or would it be better to say that the PC's may not use them), but each one potentially gives the PC's something to interact with.

ic - PoL

You think to much.

doghead
aka thotd