D&D 5E 07/08/2013 - Legends & Lore Monsters and the World of D&D

[Doug McCrae]

• A much better nutshell ("Ettercaps are ugly bipedal creatures that get along very well with all types of giant spiders. These creatures of low intelligence are exceedingly cruel, very cunning, and are skilled in setting traps – very deadly traps – much like the spiders that often live around them.")
• A physical description
• They have no real language, and express themselves in high pitched chittering noises
• They secrete lethal poison, an ounce of which is worth 1000 gp in the open market
• They love using traps, especially traps incorporating webs from themselves or their spiders
• Different individuals prefer different trap designs, so each ettercap encounter should be different
• A physical description of their nests
• They do not keep treasure, but there may be treasure from dead adventurers lying around
• They live alone (or rarely as mated pairs)
• Males and females are identical
• They eat meat
• After killing a victim, they immediately devour as much of the corpse as possible before leaving the rest for scavengers (though they do share with their spiders)
• An ettercap can eat an ogre in one sitting

Couldn't you extrapolate most, if not all, of this, from the phrase "spider people"?

I don't have a problem with long monster entries, so long as they're good. D&D's have hardly ever been. The githyanki in the 1e Fiend Folio are one of the few exceptions.

 

[Dwimmerlied]

I liked the description in the L&L. But I'd never seen the 2ed stuff until you guys posted it, and I have to say, I'd really like it if they include that level of detail, especially where there is existing canon.

 

[Blackwarder]

Couldn't you extrapolate most, if not all, of this, from the phrase "spider people"?

I don't have a problem with long monster entries, so long as they're good. D&D's have hardly ever been. The githyanki in the 1e Fiend Folio are one of the few exceptions.

Nope, it essentially require me to remake the monster and its place in the world, I'm a lazy DM, I rather have what Mike wrote in his column+the stuff from 2e MM all rolled into one package.

I like what Mike wrote in the column, I just don't want it to end with that, lets decide that we are going to give each monster at least a page n the monster manual and make it good.

I also like having a written description of the creature, it make it easier to describe the creature to the players.

Warder

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I love long, detailed pieces of prose that tell you about the monster. 2E is excellent in that respect.

Heck, I wouldn't mind if they used direct quotes from their own vast collection of novels. If someone describes an ettercap in a Forgotten Realms novel, put it in as a quote, as a field report. Call of Cthulhu does this as a homage, and obviously the creatures and gods there are quite extrapolated, but it's still inspiring.

 

[steeldragons]

I am not familiar with that book, but I can say I definitely don't want the MM to be a stat book only.

Most definitely. But I feel there's room...quite a lot of room...for compromise here.

As a B/X fan, that's way more detail than I want or need. Give me single paragraph long descriptions and 4, 5, or 6 monsters to a page!

Nooooooooooooooo. That what they did in 3e and 4e and it was crap, give me 2e MM any day.

Yeah. See, this is what I mean. There has got to be a nice medium in here, between 3-4 monsters per page and 1 monster per page (possibly taking more than 1 page!).

I think the 1e MM and Fiend Folio kind of started with the idea I'm about to present, but never really formalized it.

I'm a sucker for detail. Generally speaking, the more the better, especially when it comes to fluff. Stats are stats are stats and there's no reason a thorough stat block should change from monster to monster. Some just have a bit more because instead of "Special Abilities: none.", "Special Abilities: xyz" will take more room.

They should formalized the descriptive blocks. Things like normal [real world] animals or even giant versions, and simpler "mindless" or "animal intelligence" creatures (stirges and the like) probably don't need to take up an entire page with descriptive fluff. I don't need a full page on what bears are and what they do. Some things, like spiders, where there are many multiple types with differing attacks or habits/habitats, fine they need a little longer simply because you have to detail the differences between species.

Sapient creatures, particularly humanoids, would/should include things like societal structures and general societal attitudes/outlooks, ecology, etc...So they get a longer description. I could see a full page about elves, dwarves, goblins, orcs, etc. Solitary "monster" critters, like Ettercaps...Owlbears...or other things that are essentially "bugbear/ogre/troll" reskinned to "spider-guys with web-making abilities" go somewhere in the middle...since there is no "culture/society" to describe.

And, of course, the "big categories" of critters: dragons, giants, demons, etc... get their "sections" with common traits, so they'll continue to take up multiple pages for these 1 type of creature, and then shorter individual type details...which could be shorter or longer depending on how detailed they get with their backstories/societies/interactions/attitudes, etc. etc...

I would like to see something like that. Animals and, essentially, "animal" type creatures are shorter, individual fantastical critters maybe a bit more detail (since they is no real world knowledge to assume) and then long humanoid entries and large category monsters taking the most space, page wise if not individual entry-wise.

So, something like that. I don't want a "stat block" MM. That does nothing for imagination or creativity. On the flip side, I don't need a uniform page and page after page of forced/explicit shlock (which may or may not be how I want to creature to be in my world/game) simply cuz we need to fill a whole page for each creature.

Somewhere in the middle...that's juuuust riiiight.

As a "PS" re: Ettercaps eating pixies to become aranae...in B/X at least, weren't they "Good"?! or, well, "Lawful" in B/X terms. Why would an ettercap, low intelligence or not, WANT to eat something that would make them Lawful [implied Good]? Then become a magic-using spider-thing and, well, go find others of its kind and become part of a society of nice spider-things? It would ruin their beautiful wickedness! I could see them HUNTING pixies, hating faye of all kinds, to stop the transformation of others, but certainly not eat them willfully.

 

[Weather Report]

Nooooooooooooooo. That what they did in 3e and 4e and it was crap, give me 2e MM any day.

Warder

I agree, the 2nd Ed MM is a paragon of monster books, I am having a blast converting 2nd Ed monster to 5th Ed, the Baernaloth was extra fun.

 

[JeffB]

I have mixed feelings about the issue.

I will say the info presented for the ettercap was written in a dry uninspiring style. Sometimes less is more. Something the 2eMM suffers from at times.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Part of me wonders how much of the old "description" is being exported to some sort of stat-block. That said, I think we can do better than this.

Ettercap
The hunched, humanoid shape moved adroitly through the webs, leading several monstrous spiders to the struggling halfling crying out between the branches, hunger in its blood-red reptilian eyes.

• Spiderfriend: Ettercaps work closely with monstrous spiders, sharing their kills and hunting alongside each other. Ettercaps can use webbing, spinning silk like a spider from their pot bellies, and are also equipped with venomous fangs.
• Cunning Trap Builder: Ettercaps mimic spiders by constructing their own traps from their webbing. Each Ettercap designs traps a little differently from the rest, but all are designed to be deadly and constricting, with pit traps, net traps, trip wires, and ankle-nooses all constructed from the environment and the Ettercap's webbing. They wait patiently for intruders to drop into their traps before attacking, preferring helpless (or nearly so) prey to actively struggling people.
• Highly Poisonous: The Ettercap's poison is deadly, wracking a body with agony as it courses through the veins. It kills most normal people in only a few rounds of writhing agony, and is even valuable on the black market as an assassin's poison.

Encountering an Ettercap: Surprise DC XX. If an Ettercap gains surprise, it waits for the party to stumble into one of its traps before attacking. Once the trap has been triggered and at least one PC caught in it, the Ettercap descends, along with whatever monstrous spiders the creature is living with, to feed. The Ettercap bites prey with its fangs and lets the poison do the dirty work of killing a character, returning after a few rounds to eat. The Ettercap can devour an entire Large creature at one sitting, though if it's working with spiders, it will leave half of any prey for them.

Random Ettercap Traps (1d4) :

• Spiked Webbed Net Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, victims in a 15x15 area are dealt XdX damage and are restrained until they make a successful saving throw to cut or break themselves out.
• Wooden Jaw Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, the victim is dealt XdX damage and are immobilized until they make a successful saving throw to break themselves out.
• Ankle-Noose Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, the victim is dealt XdX damage and has their ankle badly twisted, limiting their movement to 5 feet per round until they take a daily rest.
• Spiked Pit Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, victims in a 15x15 area are dealt XdX damage and are dropped into a 10-ft. deep pit from which they must escape.

An ettercap's physical appearance is ugly and horrid, a hunched, humanoid frame with long, spindly limbs and thin, sharp fingers. The flesh of an ettercap is dark and studded with wiry, spider-like hairs, while its head is muzzle-like, sporting a pair of immense fangs in its large, sharp maw.

Dealing with an Ettercap: Ettercaps treat most other creatures (who are not spiders) as food, but if one can speak the language of spiders, one can talk with an Ettercap. Ettercaps are typically Neutral Evil: they are cruel and selfish, delighting in the suffering their venom and hunting causes. They are simple creatures, though, with only a dim, predatory cunning, and so the main difficulty in deceiving one lies in getting it to trust that you, too, are not entirely self-interested and cruel. A hungry ettercap may be offered larger or easier prey in exchange for letting smaller or more tenacious prey escape, but because the creatures are thoroughly evil, they often try to take BOTH creatures rather than allow one to escape. Still, they have a sense of self-preservation, and tend to be cautious rather than reckless.

Fighting an Ettercap: Ettercaps tend not to fight long if their prey manages to free itself, scuttling back into the forest quickly. If they've managed to bit a victim, they'll keep a close eye on the party, hoping to abscond with the corpse once their venom has done its deadly work. They'll scratch with their claws and bite with their fangs, but the real danger is from following a fleeing ettercap -- they often escape through a path littered with more of their traps.

---

I'm not sure how much of the lore of that critter on the site comes from 4e, but I'm not particularly fond of the "can become an aranea by eating pixies" track. I mean.....wat....

 

[steeldragons]

Part of me wonders how much of the old "description" is being exported to some sort of stat-block. That said, I think we can do better than this.

Ettercap
The hunched, humanoid shape moved adroitly through the webs, leading several monstrous spiders to the struggling halfling crying out between the branches, hunger in its blood-red reptilian eyes.

• Spiderfriend: Ettercaps work closely with monstrous spiders, sharing their kills and hunting alongside each other. Ettercaps can use webbing, spinning silk like a spider from their pot bellies, and are also equipped with venomous fangs.
• Cunning Trap Builder: Ettercaps mimic spiders by constructing their own traps from their webbing. Each Ettercap designs traps a little differently from the rest, but all are designed to be deadly and constricting, with pit traps, net traps, trip wires, and ankle-nooses all constructed from the environment and the Ettercap's webbing. They wait patiently for intruders to drop into their traps before attacking, preferring helpless (or nearly so) prey to actively struggling people.
• Highly Poisonous: The Ettercap's poison is deadly, wracking a body with agony as it courses through the veins. It kills most normal people in only a few rounds,

Encountering an Ettercap: Surprise DC XX. If an Ettercap gains surprise, it waits for the party to stumble into one of its traps before attacking. Once the trap has been triggered and at least one PC caught in it, the Ettercap descends, along with whatever monstrous spiders the creature is living with, to feed. The Ettercap bites prey with its fangs and lets the poison do the dirty work of killing a character, returning after a few rounds to eat. The Ettercap can devour an entire Large creature at one sitting, though if it's working with spiders, it will leave half of any prey for them.

Random Ettercap Traps (1d4) :

• Spiked Webbed Net Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, victims in a 15x15 area are dealt XdX damage and are restrained until they make a successful saving throw to cut or break themselves out.
• Wooden Jaw Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, the victim is dealt XdX damage and are immobilized until they make a successful saving throw to break themselves out.
• Ankle-Noose Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, the victim is dealt XdX damage and has their ankle badly twisted, limiting their movement to 5 feet per round until they take a daily rest.
• Spiked Pit Trap, Notice DC XX, Save DC XX, victims in a 15x15 area are dealt XdX damage and are dropped into a 10-ft. deep pit from which they must escape.

An ettercap's physical appearance is ugly and horrid, a hunched, humanoid frame with long, spindly limbs and thin, sharp fingers. The flesh of an ettercap is dark and studded with wiry, spider-like hairs, while its head is muzzle-like, sporting a pair of immense fangs in its large, sharp maw.

Dealing with an Ettercap: Ettercaps treat most other creatures (who are not spiders) as food, but if one can speak the language of spiders, one can talk with an Ettercap. Ettercaps are typically Neutral Evil: they are cruel and selfish, delighting in the suffering their venom and hunting causes. They are simple creatures, though, with only a dim, predatory cunning, and so the main difficulty in deceiving one lies in getting it to trust that you, too, are not entirely self-interested and cruel. A hungry ettercap may be offered larger or easier prey in exchange for letting smaller or more tenacious prey escape, but because the creatures are thoroughly evil, they often try to take BOTH creatures rather than allow one to escape. Still, they have a sense of self-preservation, and tend to be cautious rather than reckless.

Dunno 'bout the rest of y'all, but this works beautifully for me. Nice blend of crunch and fluff. Evocative material throughout. Could, perhaps, be de-crunched a bit...i.e. offer 3 web-based traps (since I see no reason/indication it would be digging pits or making spikes)...

But yeh, pretty spot on. And easily, at this size, could get 2-2.5 critters, maybe even 3, to page with pix. Nicely done.

I'm not sure how much of the lore of that critter on the site comes from 4e, but I'm not particularly fond of the "can become an aranea by eating pixies" track. I mean.....wat....

I know, right? It seems just weirdness for weirdness' sake. "The evil poisonous web-spewing spider-speaking bugbears are too 'normal'. They're not magicky/fantasy enough. We need to give them something else....Let's see...Let's see...Ya know what's magicky? Pixies!!!"

EDIT: "OO! OO! And an ettercap that eats a whole centaur in one sitting turns into a DRIDER! Yeah! Yeah, That's the ticket! A 'Lesser' Drider of coruse since we all know that a real drider comes from a Drow who eats a whole Ettercap who ate a whole Unicorn. Gads...I'm SUCH a genius!"

 

[TerraDave]

I guess I am the one, but I really liked the LL version, and found it very evocative. The only thing missing was the picture (well, that and the game stats). For the alternatives proposed above, I did start to loose interest pretty quickly as I was reading through them. (And yes, I have the monstrous manual and used it quite a bit back in the day). Some of those details are also better captured in the game stats, which will let us know how dangerous these things really are.