1E Resurgence?

[Psion]

Well, I'll be a contradicting data point, I'm afraid.

I'm not interested in 1e again because 4e isn't scratching my gaming itch, or because it's somehow breaking the legacy. I'm still running a 4e game and am still enthusiastic about it.

If you are playing 4e and not some older edition, I'm not sure you are a "data point" for the purposes for my conjecture.

Still, it baffles me, for reasons laid out by Shazman.

 

[Shazman]

If he didn't, I'll say it. I posted a while back a list of all the elements of 4E that do seem to hearken back to prior editions, from the "short rest between combats" to the staying power of monsters, to the XP awards, etc. etc. There are a lot of elements that seem to imply "this worked better than what we have now" sort of changes. This really isn't the thread for in-depth discussion of it, though, as it's more about 1E.

What 1E resurgence has done however, even if a small resurgence, is make people mindful of the elements that make a game popular to average Joes and Janes, people who don't want to think about the mechanics very much, but who just want to either kill things and take stuff, or roleplay a character, or socialize with friends, or some combo of the three.

Games like Labyrinth Lord or Castles and Crusades do remind me that there was a reason (besides a Satanism scare) that people turned out in tens and twenties at game tables throughout the Seventies and early Eighties, and looking back to the old while thinking about the new is a good way to remind us just what was popular about those games to those people who weren't smitten with die-hard gaming, but just those who wanted a fun experience at the table.

So there were 30+ hit point kobolds at 1st level that took a steady beating for 5+ rounds to kill, and you could get back spells and hit points by resting for 5 minutes between fights in 1E? That really doesn't match up with what I know and have heard of about 1E.

 

[CleverNickName]

So there were 30+ hit point kobolds at 1st level that took a steady beating for 5+ rounds to kill, and you could get back spells and hit points by resting for 5 minutes between fights in 1E? That really doesn't match up with what I know and have heard of about 1E.

I think you might have missed the point. He was suggesting that people are interested in 1E again because it reminded us that it was supposed to be about having fun, not because it is similar to (or a replacement for) 4th edition.

 

[Fifth Element]

Well, to state seriously what I was stating jokingly, I don't think 4e has much "old school" feel at all. If anything is repsonsible for a supposed spike in old school interest related to 4e, I would suspect it is that people dissatisfied with the degree to which 4e divorces itself from legacy D&D elements that 4e scuttles decide to consider games they already have to recapture that feel.

I think it's great that a pro-1E thread can turn into an anti-4E thread so quickly.

Heck, we even got a "videogamey powers" reference a few posts ago.

 

[Obryn]

If you are playing 4e and not some older edition, I'm not sure you are a "data point" for the purposes for my conjecture.

Still, it baffles me, for reasons laid out by Shazman.

No, I'm playing both, in separate campaigns. Or will be playing both when my 1e games starts on 11/16. The 4e game is 1/week for 3-4 hours; the 1e game is 1/month for 6-8 hours.

When folks talk about how 4e in no way resembles 1e or RC, I think they're missing the forest for the trees. They're getting caught up on powers and minions, and missing the free-form anything-goes roleplaying and the simplicity of putting together adventures.

-O

 

[JeffB]

When folks talk about how 4e in no way resembles 1e or RC, I think they're missing the forest for the trees. They're getting caught up on powers and minions, and missing the free-form anything-goes roleplaying and the simplicity of putting together adventures.

Agreed.

I know that I am going through all my old O/B/X/A D&D materials (as well as C&C) and having a blast reading through it for inspiration and working it into 4E. I cannot say I ever felt that way in the least with 3E, where I would come here to ENWORLD and hope to god someone had done all the work for me and posted it in the conversion library.

In addition I've found myself pulling ideas/materials from other FRPGs- something again I'd never wanted , nor ever bothered, to do with 3E.

:shrug:

 

[Mister Doug]

So there were 30+ hit point kobolds at 1st level that took a steady beating for 5+ rounds to kill, and you could get back spells and hit points by resting for 5 minutes between fights in 1E? That really doesn't match up with what I know and have heard of about 1E.

Can I possibly suggest that an experienced former 1e DM or Player may look at later editions and see important similarities despite differences? So there might be deep, fundamental differences in mechanics, but other elements of game play, mood, or even mechanics may still beg positive comparison?

It is possible to say both that 4e has similarities and vast differences and not be inconsistent.

 

[Ulrick]

Can I possibly suggest that an experienced former 1e DM or Player may look at later editions and see important similarities despite differences? So there might be deep, fundamental differences in mechanics, but other elements of game play, mood, or even mechanics may still beg positive comparison?

It is possible to say both that 4e has similarities and vast differences and not be inconsistent.

I think the 4e mood and gameplay are similar to OD&D and AD&D. And that's why there is a sudden resurgence in the those older editions. Another reason is that 4e has cast out almost all of the game sacred cows and started over. 4e, like OD&D, is a beginning. Some do not like the fact that 4e changed a lot of things and are going back to D&D's beginnings to find what they like.

Also, once again, we as players are faced with starting over with a new (an unfamiliar) system and game world. "The Realm of mankind is narrow and constricted" resonates from the Keep on the Borderlands into the "points of light" mood of 4e.

Of course, this trend of going back to older editions isn't new. Remember when "Rules-lite" topics were common? Often, people suggested going to older editions or C&C--which is based on an older edition design and feel.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I think that there are multiple reasons for a resurgence to older pre-2E games. 4E cleaned up a lot of 3.X complexity but added additional complexity elsewhere while at the same time, slaughtering some sacred cows. Some people found the changes unacceptable and began looking for other systems. Some people were happy with 3.X and didn't see a need for a whole new edition. Then there are those who like thier sacred cows but want them served up with a healthy dose of simplicity.

I remember gaming from back in the Basic/1E days. Being able to get out a couple of inexpensive books, some paper,and dice and just sit around the living room in a bean bag chair and start gaming was a great experience thats become more difficult to do with later rule sets. You can play 3E or 4E without minis, in theory but a lot of the finer points of certain abilities get either too downplayed or receive a power up from a lack of exact positioning.

Older systems that are very inexpensive (or free) with simple rules that don't require a board or minis are making a comeback. Some groups still prefer the more complex systems and will continue to use them. It will be interesting to see how much interest these older and simpler games generate in the coming months with the economic situation being what it is.

 

[radferth]

My renewed interest in older editions started a couple years ago when I tried to run Necropolis in third edition. Party vs. one big monster went well enough, but party vs. group was just two much work for me. There were two summon-happy spellcasters in the party, so it was kind of a worse case scenario.

I picked of fourth edition, and although I appreciate things about it such as the streamlined combat* and less need for rules-mastery, Other things about it leave it unappealing to me to run. I must say reading 4e did inspire me to go out and buy the collected Dying Earth novels. All this leads me to believe that exposure to fourth edition may well cause folks to think "Hey, I'd like some faster, simpler gameplay in a with familiar rules in more retro setting."


*Why, oh, why did they choose to make HPs so high in 4e (particularly for monsters), thereby eliminating a big chunk of the benefit of the streamlined combat?