D&D 1E 1st attempt at converting a creature from 1e to 5e

[Helm]

Hi,

I'm planning on running my first 5e campaign as soon as my current Pathfinder one finishes (which is soon). I want to slot an old 1e adventure from White Dwarf Magazine (back when it had D&D content) - called Nightmare in Green. The main antagonists are horrible undead creatures known as Brothers of the Pine. Created by performing a necromantic ritual and pumping pine sap into their veins to replace blood. What results is an intelligent undead creature with druidic spellcastic ability.

Anyway, I've roughly followed the monster creation rules in the DMG and have come up with the following:

Brother of the Pine
medium undead, neutral evil
Armour Class 13
Hit Points 22 (4d8+4)
Speed 30 ft.
Str 13 (+1), Dex 12 (+1), Con 13 (+1), Int 12 (+1), Wis 15 (+2), Cha 6 (-2)

Damage Vulnerabilities Fire
Damage Resistances Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing from silver or non-magic weapons.
Damage Immunities Cold, Necrotic
Condition Immunities Charmed, Exhaustion, Poisoned
Skills Nature +4, Stealth +3
Senses Darkvision 60 ft. Passive Perception 12
Languages Common, Druidic
Challenge 1/4 (50 XP)

Innate Spellcasting. The Brother of the Pine spellcasting ability is Wisdom (spell save DC 12). It can innately cast spells as a 3rd level druid, requiring no material components. Typical spells prepared are:

Cantrips (at will) - Poison Spray, Thorn Whip
1st Level (4 slots) - Entange, Faerie Fire, Fog Cloud
2nd Level (2 slots) - Hold Person, Spike Growth

Actions
Scimitar +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature, Hit: 4 (1d6+1)

Anyway, I'd really appreciate any feedback and suggestions.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I didn't crunch the numbers, but the spells listed seem to me a little potent for CR 1/4. CR 1/2 is probably fine though.

What level of PCs is this adventure intended for?

 

[Prakriti]

The melee damage says CR 1/4, but the hit points, spellcasting, and damage resistances all say CR 1/2. Even if you followed the DMG guidelines, it's worth remembering that those guidelines are pretty out-of-step with actual monsters in the Monster Manual.

Some possibilities:
* raise the CR to 1/2. If you do this, maybe change the Scimitar to a Shillelagh instead (1d8+2).
* keep the CR at 1/4, but lower the hit points to 2d8+4.

To see how powerful this monster is, just compare it to the Acolyte, which is 1/4 CR. The Acolyte has 10 AC, 9 hit points, 4.5 average damage (with sacred flame), and no 2nd-level spells. That's a big difference in power.

Another thing to be wary of is combining vulnerabilities and resistances. In a group without a lot of magic, this monster has an effective 44 hit points. But in a group packed with fire magic, it might only have 11. That's a big difference, and it makes the CR very unreliable.

 

[Helm]

Thanks very much for your reply. This is exactly the kind if feedback I'm looking for. Reading the DMG it seemed creatures created were more powerful than their MM equivalents. I do want to keep the creature as CR 1/4 as I want to have them in fairly large numbers (up against 6th level characters).

Would dropping the resistances to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage and vulnerability to fire but keeping the hit points the same, keep the CR at 1/4?

 

[Prakriti]

Would dropping the resistances to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage and vulnerability to fire but keeping the hit points the same, keep the CR at 1/4?

There's not a huge practical difference between 13 hp and 22 hp with resistances. If you want the 22 hp, then you still want to keep the fire vulnerability.

Also, zombies are another CR 1/4 undead that are worth comparing your monster to. Zombies, like your monster, have an attack that does 4 damage, and 22 hit points, which is a lot for CR 1/4, but they have a measly 8 AC to make up for it.

If you compare the two monsters, yours is basically a zombie without the Undead Fortitude trait. As a trade-off, you have added damage immunities, intelligence, condition immunities, 5 extra AC, 10 speed of movement, level-2 spellcasting, better saving throws, and better passive Perception.

All that in exchange for Undead Fortitude! Not a fair trade, obviously.

For both balance and simplification reasons, I would give your monster:
* The same damage and condition immunities as a zombie.
* The same AC (8) as a zombie. In other words, you'll have to drop its Dexterity to 6 or 7.
* Fire vulnerability.
* The same speed as a zombie (20 ft.).
* Lower hit points. Probably 2d8+2. Especially if you want a swarm of these guys. Low-level characters just don't do enough damage to handle monsters with lots of hp. Even zombies can be a great challenge at level 1.

There are other ways to do it, of course. Depending on what you see as the monster's defining traits, you might not be willing to change some things. For example, if the monster absolutely MUST be faster than a zombie, then you have to make a different trade-off (maybe it lacks darkvision).

Hope that helps.

 

[Croesus]

Damage Resistances Bludgeoning, Piercing and Slashing from silver or non-magic weapons.

The way you have it written, silver weapons do half damage. Just a guess on my part, but I think you mean "from nonmagical weapons that are not silvered". That's the exact language from lycanthropes in the MM, which means a silver weapon or a magic weapon will do full damage.

 

[hastur_nz]

Against 6th level PC's, you'd expect to have to use what, 30-40 creatures of CR 1/4 to provide a 'reasonable' challenge in a fight? Even at CR 1/2, you're talking in the order of 20+, if these are the main antagonists, i.e. they are not supporting some 'boss types'? I have no idea about the adventure you're using, but assuming there are no classic 'evil humanoids' in charge of these beasties to provide some real challenge, I'd recommend you look at ensuring there are a few enemies of CR1+, e.g. 'enhanced' versions of the base creature, e.g. "Father of the Pine", "Mother of the Pine" etc. These can be tougher (e.g. possible to survive a fireball), and have better druid spells, etc. As noted above, use the MM as a guide, and tweak / re-skin as much as possible, rather than create from scratch.

I've just finished running a conversion of a very old adventure, B5 (1980's basic not AD&D rules, but not much difference). I didn't make up a single new stat block; where it had a monster that didn't exist in 5e, I simply found something vaguely similar, and used that stat block. The closest I got to actually 'creating' something, was when the adventure had a "Thoul", for which I just took a Ghoul, and gave it double hd, slightly better attacks, etc. The main thing I did, was adjust the actual number of creatures in some areas, to better fit the 5e "4-5 players' thing (B4 assumed more like 8+ PC's). And try to give the antagonists some actual goals etc rather than just be hanging about in their rooms waiting for the PC's!

So yeah, my advice is lean on what's in the MM as much as possible, and be mindful of how many foes, and their strength compared to the PC's, you might need to accomplish your re-design goals (AD&D was a very long time ago, and adventures often assumed more than 5 PC's; they also often assumed it was totally fine to allow the players to stumble into certain death if they so chose to... there were no real rules for how to design 'balanced encounters' back in those days, whatever 'balanced encounters' means...)

p.s. I'm using the Unearthed Arcana tables for determining appropriate challenge, not the default DMG one which I think is quite lenient (and difficult to do on the fly). Either way, as per comments above, don't try and convince yourself that a tough monster is only CR 1/4 just so you can convince yourself that using a dozen of them isn't too hard. If you're new to 5e, you'll all need a few combats to even start to see how things shake down for your group of players and DM, so try not to kill them all on your first night using 5e rules...

 

[guachi]

If this were a PC, it'd basically be a 3rd level Druid/Cleric with the Heavy Armor Master Feat but lower AC.

It's easily at least a CR 1/2 creature.

 

[Helm]

My idea is that these creatures roam in large packs of around 20, supported by a tougher leader type (more hp and higher druid level). Would they as 1/2 CR creatures pose a suitable challenge for 4 x 6th level PCs? They are intelligent so won't cluster up to be wiped out by a fireball but will use stealth and their druid spells. I might even add a ranged weapon to half of them. When the PCs find their 'base' an overgrown cavern partially open to the sky, they will have to contend with various snares and traps, carnivorous plant creatures and at the end, an over-leader brother the pine (i.e. the druid who turned into the first brother of the pine and creates the others.

Once I iron out the basic rank and file creatures, I'll work on the leaders and over-leader.

 

[Quartz]

With 20 of them Hold Person and Entangle are going to be killers.