1st Level HP's = CON..thoughts on the rule

[Bladesong]

If you search around you will find other threads on this very subject, and yes they go round and round with some people. I say try it; if you like it keep it. Personally I do not think it takes anything away from any class. Our group has been using the method you have suggested since 1st edition and there has NEVER been a problem. In addition, at second level everyone gets max class hps (i.e fighter would get 10+Con bonus) and no less than half their class die at third level (i.e. fighter cannot get less than 5 hps for his roll). Every level beyond that is random rolls as normal.
As far as the fighter somehow being "shorted", I do not see it. If you are starting at 1st level it is fair to assume that it is just like taking four people off of the street and saying "you're a wizard, you're a fighter, your're a cleric and you are a rogue. They would each only be "as tough as they were born with" if you catch my meaning.

 

[Pyrex]

Someone help me with the logic behind: "If you add more hit points to the mage at first level, the fighter becomes weaker." I need some explanation on this one. I know it's just to bring up discussion, so let's discuss it. How is that logical in a game that lasts 20 levels?

The logic is that part of the balance between Ftr/Wiz is that (on average) the Ftr has twice as many HP as the Wizard.

If you remove the HD at 1st level and replace it with Con, the Ftr loses ground in relative balance to the Wiz.

Sure, by 20th level the difference is trivial, but at 1st through, oh, 3rd to 4th level it's very noticable.

 

[Vrecknidj]

So what if the wizard is a lot tougher and the fighter is only a little tougher?

The question is, what's the goal? If the goal is to have the party stand a better chance at survival, then this works just fine.

I don't see the problem either.

Dave

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Am I one of the few players/DMs that like having the oh sht feeling at first level. I like being afraid of the goblin and absolutely terrified of the orc that you might run into at 1st level...

Nope. I like that too. There should be very few clear decisions and a very real risk of loss to get the adrenalin really pumping. Keep in mind that a character isn't dead until they are -10 DEAD; they are just rendered unconscious. That's quite a bit of damage for a EL 1 NPC to inflict. And sometimes, well, you just get really unlucky.

I may be considered a bit tough as a DM, but I usually aim to disable or negate at least one character during each combat. I want players fearing death. I want them in two states of mind. I want the party cleric to have to stop pounding an NPC and rush to the aid of his/her comrades because they are unconscious and dying (and I now have their sheet so that nobody else knows exactly what HP they are currently on).

Anyhow, with that said, a solution for those who do want tougher 1st level characters with a bit more longevity...

Rather than unbalance the game by permanently giving characters their CON for HP at level 1, simply use CON as a threshold. That is, a character always uses their CON or HP, whichever is higher. By second or third level, a character's HP is higher than their CON anyway, so you can then discard the rule.

Everyone's a winner!

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

My thoughts.. I prefer keeping the distinction of the class HD, so CON + Max 1st level HP..

My current game uses a variant on Reserve Hit Points, using CON + Level as the reserve pool. This has worked out well, altho the group did not stay at first level for long. If I were to run a game in which I expected a longer stay at first I would use the Reserve HPs and grant max hit points on top of a HP roll {so a Mage could have 4 + 1D4 + Con Mod in HPs, and CON+1 in reserve HPs}

This method also has the side benefit of a 'second wind' effect as well as limiting the need for a cleric/healer

I do like Deus Ex Machina's threshold idea...

 

[AbeTheGnome]

I just give players in my campaign max HPs at first level as a house rule.

this is a house rule?

 

[green slime]

this is a house rule?

Its a very big house

 

[Emirikol]

I just give players in my campaign max HPs at first level as a house rule.

Max hp's at first is actually the Players Handbook standard Anything else is a house rule. I used to actually have it listed in my house rulebook too..but as DM's we don't spend hours pouring over the PHB so we miss some of that stuff

jh

..

 

[Pyrex]

So what if the wizard is a lot tougher and the fighter is only a little tougher?

Because now the 1st level fighter has it much harder against an opponent 1st level wizard.

 

[Nifft]

pouring over the PHB

Pouring anything over PHB is to be discouraged, as it will be messy.

Poring over the PHB, on the other hand, is to be lauded.

Always helpful, -- N

PS: IMC, my house rule is to give a fixed racial bonus to HP, and have PCs roll for all levels. Their rolls are also house-ruled to be at least half their HD (so a 1-5 on a d12 counts as a 6). Both are to reduce variance without increasing expected value very much.