2 part question, Thanks in advanced.

[Hitman187]

Question 1: Barbarian rage "temp. hp" and death?
The easiest way for me to explain my question is with a scenario. A barbarian PC has 100 hp normally and gains 50 hp when raging, during combat he take 150 damage and is reduced to 0. When his rage ends does he stay at 0 or go to negative 50 and die?
My character is going to be a Druid/Barbarian who will gain somewhere around 78 temp. hp when wildshaping and raging, we have no solid healer, especially in mid combat. Will this extra hp help me live much or just keep me going till the battle is over and fall over dead.

Question 2: Size modifiers for Stats.
My effective druid level for wildshaping will let me use any form I want, but combined with the growth sub-domain I will be able to enlarge myself, would this change the stats I gain from being a different size or no? For example would " +8 size bonus to your Strength a -2 penalty to your Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus" change giving me more Str Con or natural armor and less Dex? And if so is there any charts for these?

 

[undeaddan]

I can only answer #1.

If your Barbarian is reduced to 0HP or below and his rage ends you are in extreme danger of death. That is the difference between Barbarian Rage HPs and temporary HPs. Now there is very little chance of you getting 50 HP from raging. At 11th level for example, you would gain 33 HP.

 

[Tovec]

Question 1: Barbarian rage "temp. hp" and death?

Okay, I think the second poster got it right. Just needs a bit of touching up.
HP from Rage is not temporary HP. It doesn't go away first. It is Extra HP that you didn't have before. When you gain extra HP this way, and then lose it - such as from finishing rage - you keep the same amount of HP.
I never thought this flaw was intentional and have made several posts in different areas about how to fix it but that's not your question.

I need to break up your second question...

<snip> but combined with the growth sub-domain I will be able to enlarge myself, would this change the stats I gain from being a different size or no?

I think you're asking.. Would the growth domain affect your wildshape?
If so.. As far as I understand how wildshape and the growth domain work, I'd say No, they don't stack. I'm saying that only because you are no longer a Person to be changed.
Or you are asking.. Would the wildshape/growth domain affect your rage.
Yes as far as I know, any effects that increase stats beyond rage will still increase those stats. Put another way, Rage stacks with wildshape or enlarge person. This is true only so long as it is NOT the same type bonus.

For example would " +8 size bonus to your Strength a -2 penalty to your Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus" change giving me more Str Con or natural armor and less Dex? And if so is there any charts for these?

This part confuses me. Where are those bonuses from? Increasing STR or CON has no effect on DEX, unless the source states so.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I can only answer #1.

If your Barbarian is reduced to 0HP or below and his rage ends you are in extreme danger of death. That is the difference between Barbarian Rage HPs and temporary HPs. Now there is very little chance of you getting 50 HP from raging. At 11th level for example, you would gain 33 HP.

Yep. It is a real hazard for barbarians. Take too much damage, lose your Rage and then turn into hamburger. And since Rage ends when you are unconscious, being kicked down to -1 HP, losing your Rage, followed immediately by losing your Extra HP.... Splat!

It is not an accident - it was a deliberate design choice to both put it in 3e and to keep it for Pathfinder. There is a feat that allows you to keep your Rage bonus while unconscious, almost mandatory, that one.

Raging Vitality (From the Advanced Player's Guide)

While raging, you are full of vigor and health.

Prerequisites: Con 15, rage class feature.

Benefit: Whenever you are raging, the morale bonus to your Constitution increases by +2. Your rage does not end if you become unconscious. While unconscious you must still expend rounds of rage per day each round.

And of course, if you do fall out of Rage while at negative HP... you are even deader than without the feat.

Diehard is also handy - automatically stabilize, and remain conscious (and Raging) when at negative HP.

It may seem harsh, but most characters don't get the bonuses that Rage gives a barbarian. Always make certain to have plenty of healing potions before entering Rage.

The Auld Grump

 

[kubodhi]

I need to break up your second question...

I think you're asking.. Would the growth domain affect your wildshape?
If so.. As far as I understand how wildshape and the growth domain work, I'd say No, they don't stack. I'm saying that only because you are no longer a Person to be changed.

One clarification here - although the wording is a bit inconsistent "turn into" vs "assume the form of", it's generally accepted that Wild Shape in Pathfinder is a modified form of the listed spells (Beast Shape, Plant Shape, Elemental Body, Giant Form, etc) where the primary difference is the duration. According to those spells, your creature type doesn't actually change from your original type, because they're part of the Polymorph spell type clarified here (emphasis mine):

Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +20 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature.

Since your type doesn't change from what is most likely "humanoid" (if you're a standard PC race), Enlarge Person would still work on you. Keep in mind, however, that per the text of Enlarge person, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack." Wild Shape is a (Su) - or Supernatural - ability, which is magical. Therefore, if you don't get larger as a result of your Wild Shape (for example, a medium size human wild shapes into a medium or smaller sized tiger), Enlarge Person should make you a tiger one size category larger, per the spell.

 

[Tovec]

One clarification here - although the wording is a bit inconsistent "turn into" vs "assume the form of", it's generally accepted that Wild Shape in Pathfinder is a modified form of the listed spells (Beast Shape, Plant Shape, Elemental Body, Giant Form, etc) where the primary difference is the duration. According to those spells, your creature type doesn't actually change from your original type, because they're part of the Polymorph spell type clarified here (emphasis mine):


Since your type doesn't change from what is most likely "humanoid" (if you're a standard PC race), Enlarge Person would still work on you. Keep in mind, however, that per the text of Enlarge person, "Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack." Wild Shape is a (Su) - or Supernatural - ability, which is magical. Therefore, if you don't get larger as a result of your Wild Shape (for example, a medium size human wild shapes into a medium or smaller sized tiger), Enlarge Person should make you a tiger one size category larger, per the spell.

You are right, it is a little unclear in the wording of both Beast Shape(Wildshape) and Enlarge Person(Growth Domain) but going back to my roots of understanding an effect.. I'd still say you aren't a humanoid (unless you are) while in Wildshape/Beast Shape. I realize that when polymorphed you aren't really a member of that species but one that looks like it. Later in polymorph (as well as Beast Shape) it lists several abilities that you do get, so clearly there is some sort of change going on there.

While Wildshaped, into say a small or medium tiger, you are no longer a humanoid and therefore not subject to the spell's clause listed here:

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling
its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes
the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target
gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to
a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its
increased size.

I could be completely off base, but that is clearly how I see and understand the rules. If I am wrong it is a definite shift in design choice made by Paizo.

 

[kubodhi]

I could be completely off base, but that is clearly how I see and understand the rules. If I am wrong it is a definite shift in design choice made by Paizo.

You're not off base for 3.5E, and you're correct that it was a shift in design by Paizo. It was part of their "rebalancing" of part of what they felt was broken with polymorphing in general. Their choice to have you remain your original creature type was a calculated one, as they're very specific about which spells will affect which creature types.

 

[Tovec]

You're not off base for 3.5E, and you're correct that it was a shift in design by Paizo. It was part of their "rebalancing" of part of what they felt was broken with polymorphing in general. Their choice to have you remain your original creature type was a calculated one, as they're very specific about which spells will affect which creature types.

Which change type? Do you have example so I can compare and contrast? If polymorph, the group of spells that change you into something else, don't make you another type, which do?

I still stick by what I say, until I see something definitively saying in Wildshape you remain humanoid and not become something else. That seems very intentional that the Wildshape ability says you turn into an animal (later other things). Not look like an animal but become one. Yes I know what Beast Shape says and what Polymorph says but neither seems to cover Enlarge Person.

At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day.

 

[kubodhi]

Which change type? Do you have example so I can compare and contrast? If polymorph, the group of spells that change you into something else, don't make you another type, which do?

I still stick by what I say, until I see something definitively saying in Wildshape you remain humanoid and not become something else. That seems very intentional that the Wildshape ability says you turn into an animal (later other things). Not look like an animal but become one. Yes I know what Beast Shape says and what Polymorph says but neither seems to cover Enlarge Person.

Well, I'm not here to beat the dead horse - I'm just letting you know what Paizo's intent is after researching this extensively for myself. You're quoting part - but not all - of the description of Wild Shape. Right after where you stopped quoting, it specifically says "This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with." The polymorph spells change your form - but that's by physical alterations that make you look very similar to the desired target. You're not actually changing type. You can easily verify this on the Paizo forums if you're interested. The rules have been explained now, but the rules are only there to provide you with what the designers see as best/balanced. If your DM will Rule 0 it for you so that you actually change creature type, then no problem!

 

[Hitman187]

Wow, I was away from home for a couple of days and couldn't respond. I actually wasn't asking if I could use the Growth domain's power in wildshape (but that is something I should figure out for sure), but when I did enlarge myself (if possible I guess) while already for example in the shape of, for example, a huge plant would the Stats changes I get for becoming a huge plant get changed now being a different size or not.