2-Weapon Fighting vs. 1-Weapon Fighting

[Lord Vangarel]

Players in my group are fond of creating fighters using two weapons that resemble the following:

Level 1: Exotic Weapon (Bastard Sword), Ambidexterity, 18 Strength. Attack -1/-1

Level 2: Two-Weapon Fighting. Attack +2/+2

Level 3: Weapon Focus. Attack +4/+4

They slap some armour on giving them an AC of say 15 to 16 and stand around slaughtering the opposition.

What I'd like to do is take a single weapon fighter and beat the daylights out of the PC to show them that not all fighters have to be dual wielding tanks.

To get started I've looked through the rules and by 3rd level there is very little difference in Base attack between the 2-weapon and 1-weapon fighters. The 1-weapon fighter can have a better AC, usually attack first, etc but still gets beaten up to easily.

Any ideas on how to do this?

 

[anglachel]

Try a fighter using a greatsword and the improved disarm feat or spring attack.

You are going to get as much damage potential without the penalties. The 1 1/2 damage bonus is very nice as well (2 handed).

The improved disarm feat take away some of the negatives from the disarm action. Remember that there is a +4 per size category difference when disarming. So you get +8 if you use a greatsword to disarm their short sword. Also, if they try to disarm you you get an additional +4 because you're holding your weapon in both hands.

Spring attack will let you move in hit and retreat. They have to then move in and will not get their full attack action, ie no 2 weapon fighting.

 

[RogueJK]

For a good, single-weapon-wielding enemy at low levels...

Ingredients:
One Orc, Gnoll, or other race with a nice bonus to strength.
An 18 to put into Strength
(At least) One level of Barbarian
One Greatsword
One suit of full plate armor.

Take the Orc (or Gnoll) and mix in a 22 strength (18+4 racial). Spread on a level of Barbarian, adding levels of Fighter until desired CR is met. Bake for 20 minutes inside a full plate shell, and garnish with a greatsword. Add Weapon Focus and Power Attack as needed.

Serve warm, preferrably while raging.

 

[bensei]

Make the opponent very strong (e.g. Str 20 + Bull's Strength) and let him wield a greatsword or -axe two handed. Give him full plate armor and let him power attack.

 

[RigaMortus]

Bah, just be cheesy and use a Spiked Chain instead of a Great Sword. Then you have some Reach on them...

 

[bensei]

Alternatively, let their opponent seen to be a fighter, but he then turns out to be a war cleric with very nasty domains and spells prepared.

 

[Umbran]

To get started I've looked through the rules and by 3rd level there is very little difference in Base attack between the 2-weapon and 1-weapon fighters. The 1-weapon fighter can have a better AC, usually attack first, etc but still gets beaten up to easily.

Any ideas on how to do this?

First, a terminology note - "base attack bonus" is a very specific thing - it refers to the attack bonus a character gets from class levels, only. It does not include strength or other bonuses. Two third level fighters will always have the same base attack bonus, while their total melee attack bonuses may differ.

For two characters of equal strength and level, all else being equal, the attack bonus of the one-weapon character will always be at least 2 better than the dual-wielding character. Two points doesn't seem like much, but at lower levels can be key.

By the way, you didn't mention what weapon these characters use in their off hand. It sure cannot be a bastard sword and have the bonuses you mention.

On average, before characters start getting into pretty hefty magic items, a dual wielding character does less damage than a properly armed single-wielding character, on average. The single wielder hits more often and criticals more often, and gets more use out of those criticals. It may not seem that way in your group, but that's the way the numbers actually fall out. If they were using properly chosen single weapons, they'd be doing even better, on average.

Part of the problem is thast you don't get to see the average behavior of an NPC. You only see NPCs for a few moments, here and there, so you don't get a valid comparison.

 

[Dreaddisease]

Just using the PHB,
Half Orc Fighter with a Greatsword. Full Plate armor AC 19 attack bonus of +6 doing 2d6+7 with the dodge feat he can have a AC of 20 against that pesky two weapon weilder. This is first level with two feats, weap Focus Greatsword and dodge. Good luck on your -1/-1 hitting him. At third level without anything added he would have a +9 after getting his Greatsword MW and he could use a 1000 and get his armor enchanted to +1 giving him a AC 20, 21.
So there it is. The only problem is that with an average of 4 people in the party and only one of him the odds are against him. But with those bonuses against an armor of 15-16 he will do fine. Should be able to drop a couple of him easily.

That way you don't have to put them againt some weird creature just to beat them to a pulp.

 

[Crothian]

The duel welding character has a better chance to inflict damage on a higher AC opponent, though. If the single weapon guy hits on 15+ (30%), and the duel weapon guys hits on 17+ each (20%), then the single weapon guy has a 70% chance to inflict zero damage, and the dual weapon guys has 64% chance to inflict no damage.

 

[jontherev]

First of all, you have the bonuses wrong, which is part of the problem. If you are dual wielding bastard swords, here is your total penalty, assuming you have Ambidexterity and Two-weapon fighting, is -4 to all attacks because he is using an offhand weapon that is not light. Also, weapon focus only adds +1, not +2. So, if you're talking 3rd level, with a BAB of +3, an 18 strength, and 2 Masterwork swords, that's a total attack bonus of +5.

A fighter wielding a greatsword 2-handed with the same attributes above get a total of +9. Plus, he gets +6 damage from strength. I see this fighter outdamaging the other most of the time.