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20 vs 18
- Thread starter Mand
- Start date
Droogie128
First Post
Really depends on the class. For my AD rogue, 20 doesn't hurt too bad as the entire class is based off dex. The 16 is still great for riders, and the other stats haven't come into play too much. Haven't tried pumping any other class to 20 yet.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
20 (post-racial) is certainly better than 18 (post-racial), but it's very expensive in terms of what it means for all your other stats. So the question is: is the 20 (post-racial) better enough to justify its cost.
Usually, it isn't. Most classes derive enough benefit from secondary stats that it's better to not skimp.
Some PCs don't much care about their secondary stats, like a Tome of Readiness Wizard, or certain Warlock builds, but they're the exception rather than the rule.
Cheers, -- N
Usually, it isn't. Most classes derive enough benefit from secondary stats that it's better to not skimp.
Some PCs don't much care about their secondary stats, like a Tome of Readiness Wizard, or certain Warlock builds, but they're the exception rather than the rule.
Cheers, -- N
Infiniti2000
First Post
Instead look at 17 pre-racial. Not a huge cost and still valuable so you get an upgade at 4th level.
As with all character building decisions, it's a question of balancing benefits vs. opportunity costs. A 20 in your main attack stat has one big advantage, and that is accuracy. In 4th edition, you need to hit for most of your effects, so a good attack bonus is very important.
However, accuracy can be achived by other means. I play a halfling cleric at the moment (big fun), with a starting Wis of 16. With Implement Expertise and Distant Advantage, in addition to many attacks against Will, he has hit around 8 attacks out of 10 so far and is very effective.
The drawback of a 20 is that your secondary stat will be 14 at best (w/o racial bonus). This will make many class features and powers mediocre only. And it will really hurt if you need a third stat, like many rangers, paladins and barbarians.
To sum it up:
- Look at where your specific build benefits most when placing stats
- Race / class combos can be viable and fun even if the stats don't align
However, accuracy can be achived by other means. I play a halfling cleric at the moment (big fun), with a starting Wis of 16. With Implement Expertise and Distant Advantage, in addition to many attacks against Will, he has hit around 8 attacks out of 10 so far and is very effective.
The drawback of a 20 is that your secondary stat will be 14 at best (w/o racial bonus). This will make many class features and powers mediocre only. And it will really hurt if you need a third stat, like many rangers, paladins and barbarians.
To sum it up:
- Look at where your specific build benefits most when placing stats
- Race / class combos can be viable and fun even if the stats don't align
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Anything in the 18-20 range is fine as a general rule. 
Going 17 or lower usually requires a specific build to be efficient, but there are some of those builds as well.
I like getting a 20 for that juicy to-hit chance and damage, but it's often not worth it when you depend on multiple secondary stats...
Going 17 or lower usually requires a specific build to be efficient, but there are some of those builds as well.
I like getting a 20 for that juicy to-hit chance and damage, but it's often not worth it when you depend on multiple secondary stats...
circadianwolf
First Post
Rogues can definitely get away with 20 Dex, as can a lot of wizards (who generally don't have a lot of use for their secondary stat). Basically, most classes whose attack stat is also their AC stat are fine with 20 (moreso if you're a hybrid with differing secondary stats).
Perun
Mushroom
I believe that 16 in a primary stat, after racial modifiers, can work pretty well. It's not the optimal choice, but it works rather well. It is, I think, expected for characters whose racial modifiers and class primary ability don't synergise well (like, say, dwarf fighters).
I think going for an 18 in such cases (barring certain builds that can take it) is worse than settling for a 16 in primary attribute and distributing the rest among other abilities so as to have well-rounded defences.
I played a dwarf wizard with a starting Int of 16 for five levels (I'd have played him longer, but I moved away from my home town and haven't had the opportunity to play since), and while it is true that he missed more times than he hit, even a 20 Int wouldn't have helped him, since it was more due to my terribly low die rolls.
Regards.
I think going for an 18 in such cases (barring certain builds that can take it) is worse than settling for a 16 in primary attribute and distributing the rest among other abilities so as to have well-rounded defences.
I played a dwarf wizard with a starting Int of 16 for five levels (I'd have played him longer, but I moved away from my home town and haven't had the opportunity to play since), and while it is true that he missed more times than he hit, even a 20 Int wouldn't have helped him, since it was more due to my terribly low die rolls.
Regards.
Holy Bovine
First Post
Yup - this is what I shoot for when doing point buy. usually 17, 15, 13, 10, 10, 8 or 17, 14, 12, 11, 10, 10 (all before racial mods of course) I find this array to work for most classes very well. The 4 points you blow just to have an 18 at 1st level is never worth it, imo.
