D&D 3E/3.5 [3.0 -> 3.5] Acid Fog to Zone of Truth

[Magus Coeruleus]

This is minor but complicated point that perhaps shouldn't be addressed in your document, but I'll bring it up and let you decide.

The language of Mirror Image has changed slightly so that while in the past you needed a successful "attack roll" to destroy an image, now you need a successful "attack" (no "roll" specified).

There were arguments in an old thread about whether you can use Magic Missiles to take out Mirror Images, and some people said no, because you don't make attack rolls for Magic Missiles. Hence, since they are not actual creatures, the spell (or the particular Missiles, anyway) would fizzle and not fire at all.

Under the new language, one could argue that so long as you are using a targetted spell, it doesn't matter whether you would make an attack roll and thus Magic Missiles work vs. Mirror Images.

 

[theskees]

One edit: Silence

3.0 Silence had 15-ft. radius emanation. 3.5 version has 20-ft. radius emanation.

Hope this helps,

theskees

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I believe that See Invisibility was moved from Bard2 to Bard3, rather than from Bard3 to Bard2. If I'm not mistaken.

 

[Eltor Macnol]

Absolutely I'm okay with it. If you'd like something a little more readable, I let Word make a webpage out of the document. Gotta make that domain registration useful somehow.

Thank you very much.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Sterling job, mate!

A couple of points come to mind:

Unholy Blight - should be damage against *good* outsiders increased to 1d6 per level.


Wall of thorns - the SRD says that you move 5ft for every 5pts a DC20 str check is made by (rather than 5ft for every point the check is made by). I don't know whether this is different to the books? (IMO I'd ditch the squares at this point and allow someone to make 1ft progress per 1 they make the check by, otherwise *nobody* is going to be moving! I'd assess the damage after each 5ft total of movement. But that's editorialising, and not what we want here )

Waves of Exhaustion - new spell

Waves of Fatigue - new spell

Many thanks for compiling this list - it will make things much easier for my players and I to keep track of changes to spells.

Cheers!

See?! I knew it. Lessee, what are my excuses this time? Unholy blight was a copy/paste error. Wall of thorns in the book says the same as the SRD: "For every 5 points by which the check exceeds 20, a creature moves 5 feet (up to a maximum distance equal to its normal land speed)." There's no DC listed, but if there was, it'd be 25. In 3.0 there was a DC of 20 listed, which was actually incorrect, because a roll of 20 to 23 had no meaningful benefit. So they did away with the DC listing entirely and simply said what was intended (making it 1 point more difficult to move in the process, for the sake of having "round" numbers.)

I don't know how I managed to skip over those two new spells. Musta been in a hurry to get done. <g>

This is minor but complicated point that perhaps shouldn't be addressed in your document, but I'll bring it up and let you decide.

The language of Mirror Image has changed slightly so that while in the past you needed a successful "attack roll" to destroy an image, now you need a successful "attack" (no "roll" specified).

There were arguments in an old thread about whether you can use Magic Missiles to take out Mirror Images, and some people said no, because you don't make attack rolls for Magic Missiles. Hence, since they are not actual creatures, the spell (or the particular Missiles, anyway) would fizzle and not fire at all.

Under the new language, one could argue that so long as you are using a targetted spell, it doesn't matter whether you would make an attack roll and thus Magic Missiles work vs. Mirror Images.

Actually, the wording of mirror image kinda annoys me, because it doesn't follow the new trend of assuming a battlemat. Also, it says that "observers can't use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image," but then states that "an attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled," despite the fact that the illusion obviously has an auditory element. I may send both of those in as errata.

But with regard to your concern, how about I go middle ground and call that a clarification?

3.0 Silence had 15-ft. radius emanation. 3.5 version has 20-ft. radius emanation.

Hope this helps,

theskees

Yes it does. Thanks.

I believe that See Invisibility was moved from Bard2 to Bard3, rather than from Bard3 to Bard2. If I'm not mistaken.

Indeed, you are correct. Too many books in my lap. ::

...

I'll edit for these correction later tonight. Thanks again for the assists.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Actually, the wording of mirror image kinda annoys me, because it doesn't follow the new trend of assuming a battlemat. Also, it says that "observers can't use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image," but then states that "an attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled," despite the fact that the illusion obviously has an auditory element. I may send both of those in as errata.

But with regard to your concern, how about I go middle ground and call that a clarification?

I, too, find it annoying, but more because it says that each image is within 5' of one other image, rather than within 5' of the caster (no change from 3.0). This technically allows for images to be spread out and not in the same square as the caster (to take an extreme example, each image could be in its own square, forming a line with the caster at one end. This leads to questions such as how is it determined where exactly the images are, how does the caster's movement through squares with images affect people's knowledge about where he/she can and can't be. Andy Collins said for simplicity we should just assume that they're all clustered in the same place, which is how I run it, but I wish the spell 's description forced that interpretation, or better yet just flat out said that the images share the caster's space(s).

I'm not sure the vision/hearing thing is actually a problem. You're right that the figments must have an auditory components to not give away the real caster, but the point of shutting your eyes to foil the spell is that you just treat the caster as invisible, and make your attack into the square, taking a 50% miss chance instead of the random chance to hit an image. The downside, of course, is that you are effectively blind, suffering a -2 to AC, losing your Dex bonus, moving at half speed, etc. This makes the fact that you can hear sounds coming from the images moot, because they're all in the same square as the caster anyway and you're just attacking into the square and hoping to get lucky. The only major confusion left with this tactic is whether, if you miss the caster on that 50% miss chance roll, you might happen to hit an image and destroy it. For simplicity I guess it's just 50% caster and 50% nothing. Again, it would be nice to have things like this thought through and spelled out in the spell description.

By the way, on the News page it was reported that the new issue of Dragon magazine's Sage Advice tackles Mirror Image questions.

Oh, and yes I think that referring to the "attack roll"/"attack" chance as a clarification is spot on

Thanks for all your work! I had been thinking that a group of people could agree to split up the spell list and do this job as a distributed effort, but sometimes it just takes one dedicated individual (with some help)!

 

[Jhyrryl]

Edited as per the above few posts.

 

[bret]

Any chance of you putting this up on a web page or something, so it is preserved?

Maybe contact Morrus, see if he can put it up on the ENWorld site as a resource?