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D&D 3E/3.5 (3.5) aw screw it, I'm playing a Ninja

Fajita McJones

First Post
So I'm going to be playing in a new game with some friends from way back and it's going to be 3.5. I didn't want to leave Pathfinder and there's things I'm not looking forward to with the 3.5 mechanics, but it's a really fun group that I'm completely very excited to be playing with again. The DM told me I could play any of the core or Complete base classes and I was looking over my options and came across the Ninja. Normally I hate the idea of mixing martial arts with european inspired fantasy, but I always thought the Ninja was an interesting take on the more traditional rogue. So screw it, I'm playing a Ninja.

The build I have so far is
STR 18
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 14
WIS 20
CHA 8 (It's a high level campaign so those stats are highly augmented by magic items and improved ability scores)

For my Feats I'm taking Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus Short Sword, Brachiation (CA), Throat Punch (CS) and Disemboweling Strike (CS)

Anyone else have any experience with this ridiculous class? Please don't give me suggestions like "Just play a swordsage" or "ninja1/warblade19 works betters" as I'm dead set on playing a single class ninja and am just looking for some tips on what to focus on and what to watch out for.
 

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pawsplay

Hero
Level? My thoughts on ninja are usually along the lines of invisibility + two-weapon fighting = free candy. I've also seen some spiked chain/reach builds that looked plausible.
 

Starbuck_II

First Post
Ninja isn't bad, but we need to acquire loss of Dex to AC.

Dragon Magazine has a feat callede Extra Ki: gives 3 extra uses (for Ghost Step).
Full attacking while Completely invisible for 1 rd adds up Sudden Strike.

Go for Feint attack (Improved) so if enemy has Seeing ability you can still deny dex.
Use Magic Device is cross skill, but useful (Grease Denies Dex).

A Ring of Blink also works when you gain enough levels to afford one.

Or:

If you Prc, go for Complete Scoundrel class Avenging executioner. At 4th level, you can treat any shaken, frightened, panicked creatures as flat foot so you can sudden strike them.

Feat Frightful Presence: (requires Intimidate 9) When you charge or attack, all enemies within 30 ft who have fewer HD than you must roll will save.. Will save DC 10 + ½ character lv + Cha (), if fail shaken 1d6 + Cha mod rounds. Successful save means immune for 24 hr. Can’t affect dragons or Creatures with Int 3 or lower.

Imperious Command feat: Demoralized opponent cowers for 1 round, then shaken for 1 round. Useful if have intimidate from Avenging Executioner

Skill trick Never Outnumbered boost intimidate.
 


Persiflage

First Post
OK...

Well, assuming I can't talk you into the teensiest dip to Swordsage (free Weapon Focus with a whole load of weapons and massively improved flexibility for all sorts of reasons, not to mention the synergy with all the Tiger Claw strikes that rely on Jump checks... I had to try!) then I'll stick to the rules. ;)

Weapon Focus: Don't do it. A +1 bonus with one weapon that doesn't scale with level? Absolutely not worth a feat, and particularly not if you're only getting it to qualify for Disemboweling Strike.

Throat Punch: Don't do it. It's too situational: great with humanoid enemy casters that can't see invisible creatures, don't have fortification, can't cast their spells silently and let you get close enough to use it... but this is a high-level game, right? Don't forget:

Ambush Feats said:
Creatures immune to extra damage from sneak attacks are also immune to the secondary effects created by ambush feats.

You're already taking a class that's subject to its main damage source being nullified by circumstances: taking a feat that's only giving you a 50% chance per round of screwing up a spellcaster in really specific circumstances is just adding to the pain.

Brachiation: Again with the really restrictive circumstances. "This ability works only in medium and dense forests". If it allowed you to ignore difficult terrain in any circumstances where you had lots of protuberances and/or dangly things, it would still be marginal... as written, it's just a waste of a feat.

Disemboweling Strike: Admittedly, pretty much anything that's vulnerable to your sudden strike is vulnerable to Con damage... but is it really worth it? You're doing 1d4 points of Con damage - once - in exchange for 4d6 points of SS damage. You're giving up an average of 14 points of damage for 1d4 points of Con... which means that on average you have to be using this on something that has 14 Hit Dice just to break even. At high levels you will be fighting things with lots of Hit Dice and I can see the appeal, but I'd probably ditch this one because you're really burning two feats to get it. Leave the ability damage to the Clerics and Wizards, who can pull it out of thin air for no good reason a dozen times a day.

If you want something to get a bit more out of your sudden strike, consider Deadly Precision to increase the average... when you've got 10d6 per attack, it'll make a huge difference in the long run.

However, if I were playing a single-classed Ninja, I'd be looking to choose feats that gave me more flexibility and utility in and out of combat, not feats that rely entirely on my already-limited main class ability.

Max out your Wisdom and your Initiative modifier: with low hit points and medium BAB, you're going to want to be invisible as often as you can during a fight, and to capitalise on this as much as possible. Consider Spring Attack (or Shot on the Run) combined with your invisibility; unlike the spell, you don't become visible again just because you've attacked so you can move, strike and move again without provoking AoO's and keeping your enemies off-balance.

You can use poisons: do so. They fall off in utility as you increase in levels, because the DC's are flat and more creatures are either immune or likely to make the saves... but it's still worth knowing what you can do with them. Check out Arsenic and Old Lace for an excellent primer on poisons.

If you go down the throwing-stuff route, invest in Quick Draw, a Handy Haversack and a LOT of flasks of alchemical do-baddery. Ask your DM if the extended range of alchemical substances is available so you're not limited to acid and fire. Salve of Slipperiness can give you a grease effect, but at 1,000gp a pop it probably isn't worth it.

Give some thought to Two-Weapon Fighting as a combat technique; on those occasions you're able to do Sudden Strike damage, you want to get as much of it as possible and this is one way to do it. With thrown weapons too, why not? There are worse ideas than spamming poisoned shuriken or flasks of Alchemist's Fire. Investing in a feat chain that synergises well with your class abilities but doesn't depend on them is good: any of the above will make you more useful in combat even when your foes are not susceptible to SS... which, depending on the campaign, could be an awful lot of the time.

Other than that, most of the recommendations I'd make would be around prestige classes to pick or base classes to dip and we've established that you're not going there :)
 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
Unfotunately, Ninja is a really, really bad class. So the best tip I can give you is to just make a rogue and/or be a swordsage or dip into it.

That aside, IF you want to focus on melee, the feat Staggering Strike (C.Adventurer) is absolutely essential for your survival. Make sure to grab it at level 6, I think that's when you have the BAB to qualify.

I'd say ditch all of those feats. The feats that trade sneak attack dice for effects are geenerally always bad. The one to give up 5d6 to deal SA damage again one round later is decent, I suppose, but far from necessary. Brachiation is a cool feat, but having the trees around is very situational, and Fly makes climb obsolete at high levels. Which is where you say you're starting. Weapon Focus is a horrible feat in general, as others have said. Unless you need it to get something better, don't take it.

Unlike others, I'd recommend looking into archery, not TWF. Ninja can't sudden strike with flanking, only when foes lose dex to AC, so there's less reason to risk bodily harm in melee for them. Rapid Shot is basically like having TWF. If you go ranged, you want the Seeking enhancement badly (ANY concealment at all screws you over, which I think is bs, but that's a whole other tangent...) unless you are able to start with Improved Precise Shot (BAB +11). IPS does almost everything Seeking does*, and ignores all but total cover, too. And it lets you shoot into grapples with the 50% chance of hitting your friend. All of this is handy to any archer, but the fact that concealment screws you out of SS damage and the fact that grappling enemies lose their dex bonus to AC makes the feat an absolute gold mine for you.
*Seeking ignores ALL concelament, IPS is still foiled by total concealment (50% miss chance), so even if you have IPS, seeking is still somewhat useful. I wouldn't want to pay a +1 enhancement (which grows exponentially in effective cost as you add mroe enhancements to the weapon) for it at that point, but maybe you would.

If you have the ability to go ethereal or will soon, a ghost touch weapon is essential. Do you have access to Magic Item Compendium? It lets you get the ghost touch property cheaper and has a veritable avalanche of items to help you get past crit immunities or otherwise aid your sudden striking.

You need to deal with enemies that can see you even if you use Ghost Step. As you get higher in level, this becomes a VERY serious problem (seems like 24/7 True Seeing comes standard with double digit HD demons, for example...) and is part of the reason I really have to advise you to rethink Ninja... Make sure to get Use Magic Device (and wands/scrolls) or otherwise have a friendly spellcaster. You want grease and other effects that don't rely on vision to make foes flatfooted or lose dex to AC. Grappling, again, is a great way to get sudden strike if you have another PC or summoned monster to do that for you.

Hope this helped.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I'm not usually one to badmouth a class, but I can honestly say I haven't felt the need to play a 3.X Ninja as written. Ever.

Instead, I'd try to figure out what it is I want my "ninja" to do and then find the class or class combo that lets me do it and call him "_______ the Ninja". For instance, besides the obvious idea of looking at the Rogue, I'd also look at classes like the Beguiler, Lurk or Battle Sorcerer.

Then there are classes like the Inkyo from Rokugan (which, BTW, may have a better Ninja, as well, but I can't recall at this moment) which is a variant on the monk.

And whatever class you go, there are PrCls out there that can boost the nifty ninja factor. The Shou Disciple, for instance, is a 5 level PrCl that lets you flurry in armor with whatever weapon you're proficient (eventually). That means you could be playing ginsu in mithril chain with a pair of axes, if you wished.
 
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BENINHB

First Post
Kiai Smite is an awsome feat for ninja's

I had a group of sewer dwelling, do gooder, Tortle ninja's attack my players party of Pirates and Kiai smite was sick. So was TWF and Stunning fist. They all were Monk/Ninja
 

BENINHB

First Post
You might want to dip monk if you were already taking Improved Unarmed Strike.

You get Improved unarmed strike plus stunning fist and flurry for free.

Invisibility + Flurry + TWF + Sudden Strike = ninja full attack goodness
 


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