3.5 Dungeon 100 info

[Elder-Basilisk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3.5 Dungeon 100 info

If you think this, then you are obviously using stat buffs in a very very very different manner than any group I have ever played or DMed in. Except maybe at third level, stat buff spells were never spells that one would cast IN combat. They were cast before combat--effectively, they were quickened as well as long duration. If combat came up suddenly, a magic missile, bless, sound burst, fireball, haste, glitterdust, web, etc was a far better use of spell and action resources than a bull's strength spell.

At 1 min/level, it will usually be impractical to cast stat buffing spells before combat and, since they are inferior in effect to most good 1st level spells over the duration of a single combat, it will be impractical to cast them during combat. I predict that they only continue to be regularly cast by people who house rule them or by people who are mentally unable to adapt to the new rules. Again, at 1 min/level, even a maximized bull's strength (+5) is pretty much identical to enlarge (which merely uses a first level slot). And enlarge was hardly one of 3e's star spells at first level.

So, clerics will not prepare 2x the number of buff spells than they did before. Smart clerics won't prepare any stat buff spells at all. Instead, they'll prepare Sound Bursts, Remove Paralysises, and Calm Emotions (a spell that is far superior to the revised Hold Person). And consequently, fighters and barbarians will be left weaker than before (especially human fighters who don't seem likely to benefit from any weapon familiarity or anything else) in the face of monsters who are stronger than ever before.

As someone else pointed out the fighter won't suffer, the cleric will just be made to memorize 2x the number of buff spell that he had to before.

But even if this is a net draw the fighter is now able to roll every round to break Hold Person one of his biggest weaknesses.

 

[coyote6]

I'm quite looking forward to the casters in the party telling the non casters to bugger off on this matter...

I don't know about you, but my cleric casts as many bull's strengths and endurances on himself as he does the rest of the party combined. When I do cast on other party members, it's because I think they'll need it to survive, and their survival increases my chance of survival.

Hmm, potions of bull's strength, et. al are probably overpriced now, at 300 gp for three minutes.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 3.5 Dungeon 100 info

I sincerely hope that the reason that things like these are leaking out is that there's still some sort of choice to be made (even though the actual avaliable choices are hidden from us). Given that, I think that raising concerns is a good idea.

From what I understand, the books have already gone to the printers and they already have early copies of the book.

For some of these changes, I *really* wonder where they are getting their feedback from. Sounds like they are making just as many mistakes as they are correcting in 3.5.

 

[Olive]

Re: Re: 3.5 Dungeon 100 info

I don't know about you, but my cleric casts as many bull's strengths and endurances on himself as he does the rest of the party combined. When I do cast on other party members, it's because I think they'll need it to survive, and their survival increases my chance of survival.

Hmm, potions of bull's strength, et. al are probably overpriced now, at 300 gp for three minutes.

i just have party members who refuse to use their spells to buff others. i think it's kinda funny.

it will be interesting to see if this affects the potion prices.

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Sir Draconian:

stone skin DR 10/ adamantine
Bull str 1 min/ lvl
from a 25th lvl caster disinagrate does 40d6 on a failed save
5d6 if saved
slow only a move or standared action move is at half speed
and -1 to attack, AC, and reflex

Hmm, I actually like all of these once I think about them. Stoneskin won't be quite so overpowered now with adamantine bypassing the DR. I really like the idea of limiting the duration of stat buff spells. They lasted FAR too long before, and were extremely overpowered for their level. Disintigrate won't be an insta-kills spell (which I hate) but instead may simply weaken a foe greatly- much like a wizardly version of Harm. And slow was underused before, maybe it will be useful now.

Originally posted by Elder Basilisk:

My fears that 3.5e is dramatically beefing up the monsters while, at the same time, dramatically nerfing the PCs were initially pooh-poohed as paranoia. Every change so far seems to be reinforcing this understanding.

Dang, I hope they are nerfing the PCs somewhat. Striaght 3E PCs were nigh unstoppable if they used even semi-intelligent tactics. If monsters used the same tactics, they usually got mowed down unless they also had class levels. Monsters do need some upgrades, and PCs (especially buffing spellcasters) needed some nerfing. Most of the changes I have seen so far in 3.5 I like, I just hope they make it to press.

 

[MadBlue]

There are two Ranger characters in Dungeon 100 with good Reflex saves.

Also, the Druid/Ranger's Animal Companion gets a boost. There;s a 9th level Druid whose Animal Companion has the Special Qualities of "Link", "Share Spells" and "Devotion" (+4 bonus on Will saves vs Enchantment effects).

The Animal Companion has a 2 Intelligence and knows 9 tricks (I don't know if that's something new for 3.5).

On the other hand, it looks like Rogues will be getting that second level of UD later. There's a 6th level Rogue with UD and a Rogue10/Assassin8 with "Improved Uncanny Dodge".

MadBlue

 

[Kai Lord]

from a 25th lvl caster disinagrate does 40d6 on a failed save

Well that will make for some interesting flavor text.

 

[Jeremy Crawford]

Originally posted by Gothmog
I really like the idea of limiting the duration of stat buff spells.

If the stat buff spells follow d20 Modern, as it appears they will, their durations will not only be 1 minute/level; they'll also have their enhancement bonuses fixed at +5, rather than being random (1d4+1).

It's fun to look through d20 Modern and, in some ways, already have revised D&D.

 

[Jhyrryl]

House-Rule for the Middle Ground

I'm kinda torn on the 1 minute/level topic for stat buffs. I agree that 1 hour/level is way too much; very little (if anything) should last all day without feats like persistent spell helping them out, even at very high levels. I'm happy that they will no longer be automatically active in surprise situations.

But while it's still plenty useful for situations where the party has properly scouted out the defenses ahead, spent a few rounds prepping and then made an assault, the issue I have is that it's not likely to last more than one encounter until mid-to high levels. The spell won't evolve quickly enough.

I'll probably house-rule the stat buffs to 10 minutes/level so that when PCs are making an assault on whatever, they can expect these relatively small buffs to stay up for the duration of that assault without having to worry about micromanaging (those) spell durations. (Other types of buffs I'm perfectly happy requiring micromanagement of short durations. )

EDIT: I didn't see the "always +5" comment until after posting. If that turns out to be the case, it's still an insufficient power boost to be limited to only 1 minute/level.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I don't like the change to Disintegrate unless the damage only applies to living things. Disintegrate better still allow a mage to destroy non-living objects.

Were people really abusing Bull's Strength so often that they needed to lower the duration that much?

Stoneskin should have been DR 10/-. It absorbs a limited amount of damage, and at high levels most monsters can punch through it fairly easy. At lower levels, Stoneskin might be a problem, but once you start fighting giants, large beasts and well-equipped NPC's it becomes non-factor. There shouldn't be many people with Adamantine, but this spell should still provide unbreachable protection until the damage absorption runs out.