D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 E, older D&D and Pathfinder. What do D&D vets think of pathfinder

[Shoe]

I am an oldschool D&D player at heart, i still play 3.5 and splash elements of 2.0 and even 1.0 into my games. I recently have been considering getting into pathfinder as I love the 3.5 system for the most part, and it appears that Pathfinder has ironed out some kinks from the system. However it seems that several changes in pathfinder arent very "traditional" in that all the races get an extra +2 to a stat now, classes get a TON more abilities and all sorts of other stuff has been changed dramatically.

So i have a few questions:
1. people who have been playing since 2nd edition, what do you think of pathfinder? Does it feel like classic D&D?
2. How does Item creation work, I LOVE that you do not loose XP now, but what DO you do?
3. I am not so big on balancing the rules as I am the flavor of the game and the RP being a good simulation of real life + fantasy. Does the changes to the base classes that were made to make them less weak take away from the realism?
4. How hard is it to use CR on 3.5 monsters with pathfinder. I notice that they do not use CR any more and I am a DM 1st and a player second so if this change is big and for the better I will be excited.

THanks,
Shoe

 

[Thazar]

I would say first and foremost, Pathfinder is still 3.5 gaming. It has a lot of rules like 3.5 but it does a great job of cleaning up some of the issues. I love the skill simplification, changes to feats and spells for the most part, and the CMB/CMD is a nice mechanic to bring many things under one system.

So if you HATE 3.5 this is not the game for you... but if you like the complexity and depth of options and enjoyed 3E go for it.

As far as "Old School" feel they have done a lot with magic item creation that I like as well as introduced a mechanic to explain cursed items. And speaking of curses... things like poison, disease, and cursed items are back in a big way and that more then anything gives it a bit more feel like back in the day.

Finally, all of the classes and races have had a bit of a bump... some more so then others. But this brings players back into the idea of playing a class to 20. Prestige classes are still there, but at least a player that wants to be a fighter or wizard can go all the way to 20 if they want without feeling like the a gimping the character. This also gives it more of an 1E feel when more players have single class.

Overall I love Pathfinder and am pleased that there is still a current game in print that supports the basis of the system I have enjoyed the most over the years. 1E and 2E had good stuff... but overall fewer mechanics options.

 

[Shoe]

I would say first and foremost, Pathfinder is still 3.5 gaming. It has a lot of rules like 3.5 but it does a great job of cleaning up some of the issues. I love the skill simplification, changes to feats and spells for the most part, and the CMB/CMD is a nice mechanic to bring many things under one system.

So if you HATE 3.5 this is not the game for you... but if you like the complexity and depth of options and enjoyed 3E go for it.

As far as "Old School" feel they have done a lot with magic item creation that I like as well as introduced a mechanic to explain cursed items. And speaking of curses... things like poison, disease, and cursed items are back in a big way and that more then anything gives it a bit more feel like back in the day.

Finally, all of the classes and races have had a bit of a bump... some more so then others. But this brings players back into the idea of playing a class to 20. Prestige classes are still there, but at least a player that wants to be a fighter or wizard can go all the way to 20 if they want without feeling like the a gimping the character. This also gives it more of an 1E feel when more players have single class.

Overall I love Pathfinder and am pleased that there is still a current game in print that supports the basis of the system I have enjoyed the most over the years. 1E and 2E had good stuff... but overall fewer mechanics options.

I loved 3.5 dont get me wrong, but what I DIDNT liek about it was how it slowly but surely crept away from the flavor of traditional fantasy. I hated ebberon and most of the monsters created in the later MM (IV and V) were just plain silly. I also though that alot of the core classes and prestige classes that were created in the latter portion of the game were unnessicary (I. E. warlock). I loved alot of things about 2nd ed, like how flavor was more important than game rule balance, but I didnt like the unexplained level restrictions for races other than human and for some of the other silly things.

I am mainly worried about the changes to the core classes creating a power creep that makes monsters weaker than I am used to. in 3rd eidition kobolds, goblins and orcs didnt even seem to be a challange to even average characters. I ahve never had a problem with the power level of core classes...honestly most of my players see them through to to as high a level as we manage, but I am worried that with 4d6 drop the low, plus an additional stat bonus, plus more feats, plus more class features, that it will really mess up combat.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the input,
Shoe

 

[ruemere]

Regarding CR:
- reworked and rebalanced for monsters
- kept the same for PCs (mostly)
- lowered by 1 for NPCs (i.e. CR of an NPC character built with PC classes and heroic array is usually lower by one step, CR of an NPC built using NPC classes and non-heroic array is lower by two steps)
- for quick and dirty conversion of 3.5 monsters: increase hitpoints by 25%, bump perception and stealth ranks until hitdice level... and you're done
- for rebuilding - get Pathfinder Bestiary PDF

Regarding the change of classes:
- there are no levels where you simply roll hp and updates your BAB/saves - there is always something new added to character
- skills - new skill system is simply beautiful

Regarding feel and rules of Pathfinder:
- the differences are significant, but consulting the book when in doubt is the best way during a session
- CTRL+F (for PDF) or Pathfinder PRD link (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document) are your friends
- run, don't walk, and get the hardcover - it's worth purchasing even if you just want to add a cool new item to your collection

Regards,
Ruemere

 

[Zil]

So i have a few questions:
1. people who have been playing since 2nd edition, what do you think of pathfinder? Does it feel like classic D&D?
2. How does Item creation work, I LOVE that you do not loose XP now, but what DO you do?
3. I am not so big on balancing the rules as I am the flavor of the game and the RP being a good simulation of real life + fantasy. Does the changes to the base classes that were made to make them less weak take away from the realism?
4. How hard is it to use CR on 3.5 monsters with pathfinder. I notice that they do not use CR any more and I am a DM 1st and a player second so if this change is big and for the better I will be excited.

THanks,
Shoe

1. I've been playing since way back (started with AD&D in 1980). Our group quite enjoys Pathfinder. Prior to playing Pathfinder we had been mostly playing 3.5 with a very brief foray into 4E. I wouldn't say Pathfinder feels like "classic" D&D. It feels a lot like 3.5, only cleaned up and revitalized. Think D&D 3.75. Definitely my preferred flavour of D&D.

2. Item creation is much like in 3.5 only without the XP cost rules.

3. We didn't find any of the changes made things less realistic - certainly no less realistic than 3.x. I like that that some of the character classes are a bit less fragile (e.g. Wizards and Sorcerers getting d6's for hit dice). The change to making orisons/cantrips into "at-wills" is a nice touch that doesn't really add too much "wa-hoo" to the game. You can still run a more gritty and "realistic" game with these rules if you want.

4. It's easy to use 3.5 monsters with Pathfinder. The only thing you should change for them is working out their combat maneuvers (CMB and CMD) which you can usually do on the fly. Everything else can be pretty much be used as-is. CR is still there for all creatures in the bestiary.

For major NPCs or opponents with class levels you might want to do some additional conversion work but you can get away with not doing that if you want.

 

[Shoe]

The more i read of pathfinder, the more i like it. I haven t gotten to the spells section yet, but that could be a dealbreaker. I know they had to mess with alot of them due to balance issues.


seems like the only thing i dont care for is how they handled polymorph. Never been a problem in my group because I dont have any players that are power gamers. I think i can get around that tho....time to find some cheap copies of the pathfinder rulebooks


also since i run low fantasy settings usually, i may be able to get away with just using monsters as is...thoughts?

 

[billd91]

also since i run low fantasy settings usually, i may be able to get away with just using monsters as is...thoughts?

Should work OK. One thing about the PF versions of monsters, they've adjusted some to make them fit their listed CR a little better. In the case of weak monsters who petrify (cockatrice, basilisk), the petrification is a bit easier to resist or is easier to undo. For lower level parties unable to cast stone to flesh, this is a nice change.

For my money, the bit of PF most unlike old school versions of AD&D is magic item creation. The 3x family made it so much easier to obtain specific magic items, either through crafting it or finding someone to make it for you, that magic item retention and trade barely resembles what I remember from 1e and 2e. Multi-function items that had an occasional use in 1e (ring of shooting stars) are almost always more valuable traded in for something else in 3x. That hasn't changed much in PF. But if it didn't bother you in 3.5, I don't expect it to bother you in PF. In fact, it's a little bit better because non-casters can now do it with the Master Craftsman feat.

Overall, I like it. I like it a lot.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Pathfinder

I love Pathfinder and I think it definitely represents an evolution of the 3.5 rules. I'm guessing that it will be my RPG of choice for a long time.

That said, I'm not sure I would call it 'old school'.

The art direction is very emo/anime -- spiky hair, too-big weapons, big eyes. I'm not a fan of the new look, but I guess it's for the younger generation. Get off my lawn!

It's moved further away from 'save or die' -- a mainstay of 1E D&D. Everything just does damage now -- even Disintegrate.

Ken

 

[MerrikCale]

I'm an old 1e player who mostly skipped 2e and then picked it up again with 3/3.5. I love Pathfinder its one of the best versions of the game. It certainly a tweak better than 3.5

 

[TheNovaLord]

another player hitting his 30th anniversary of rpgs

played lots BX etc
some 1st
no 2nd
lot of 3.5
a bit of 4th
BUT
now sold on pathfinder

the modules are great
and Kingmaker is just a brilliant idea and takes with me way back to Companion set D&D