D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 mind blank and true seeing.

[Alexander123]

That it is interpretation that I favor, allowing you to keep your plans a secret in keeping with a spell of its level but not make you invincible.

 

[FEADIN]

How is that interpreting broadly? That is exactly what the spell says.

This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects

Death Ward Rapes Necromancy, True Sight rapes Illusion, Mind Blank rapes Enchantment and Divintation.

I agree on this one the information gathering has nothing to do with the target or the emanation
Can you gather informations with this divination spell or power: yes so MB protects against it
Can you affect the mind with this spell or power: yes so MB protects against it.

We always (more than 20 years) played that MB trumps all divination powers (unless specified...) so we sometimes fight a wizard that we can't detect, hard but with a listen or spot check it's less hard and there's always invisibility purge if he's not too far

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Death Ward Rapes Necromancy,

Pretty sure there's good offensive necromancy spells death ward doesn't counter. Like fear effects and ray of enfeeblement. At least it only has a short duration.

True Sight rapes Illusion,

Hell yeah it does! I hates teh True Seeing, so broken it be! I gladly let Nondetection rape True Seeing (which, judging by some old WotC thread I saw, puts me in a very small minority), though that doesn't help figments, pattens, and lots of other non-personal illusions.

Mind Blank rapes Enchantment and Divintation.

Seems to, yeah. I'd prefer if it just raped Divination.

 

[Crust]

The information gathered through true seeing and see invisibility relies on the observer's eyesight, not on divination magic alone. See invisibility and true seeing buff the observer with enhanced vision, nothing more. It's still up to the target of see invisibility or true seeing to spot creatures with his or her eyes, and mind blank does not block spot checks, even spot checks enhanced by spells whether they be divination spells or not.

Further, see invisibility and true seeing obviously do not gather information through divination magic alone like a scrying spell, locate object, locate creature, or the "detect" spells. Looking at the stats and descriptions of see invisibility and true seeing should make that clear. Mind blank blocks "all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts... as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects" (3.5 SRD). See invisibility and true seeing do not do these things. Neither spell gathers information for the caster, and neither spell reads emotions or thoughts, influences anyone, or detects anything. It's up to the person buffed with see invisibility or true seeing to gather information himself through gather information checks and spot checks, and neither is blocked by nondetection or mind blank.

See invisibility and true seeing do not pinpoint invisible things for the target of those divinations. See invisibility and true seeing do not "see" for the target of those divinations. Both spells are buffs, and could never be "cast at" or "attempted against" the subject of nondetection or mind blank unless those subjects also want the buff.

Mind blank and nondetection do not block see invisibility or true seeing. There are certainly no quotable rules that confirm otherwise. See invisibility and true seeing are divination spells, yes, but they do not gather information, and they cannot be cast at anything other than the target of the buff. Mind blank does not block a person's eyesight, even if that eyesight is buffed with true seeing or see invisibility.

 

[Vegepygmy]

How is that interpreting broadly? That is exactly what the spell says.

The spell says (exactly): "gathering information." But what do those two words mean? We can interpret them broadly, or we can interpret them narrowly.

If simply seeing something as it actually is counts as "gathering information," then even a fireball spell "gathers information." ("Oh, look! His flesh turned black and crispy when my fireball exploded nearby! That must mean he's vulnerable to fire. What useful information to have!")

So if fireball were somehow classified as a divination spell (instead of an evocation), then mind blank would protect its target from taking any damage from a fireball, since that would lead to "gathering information" about the target, even though that clearly isn't the purpose of a fireball spell.

That's if you interpret "gathering information" broadly; it becomes a meaningless limitation, because just about any spell will tell you something about something. You may as well just say "all divination spells or effects" rather than "information gathering by divination spells or effects." The fact that the authors chose the latter rather than the former suggests that they intended for mind blank to protect against some, but not all divinations. That's the narrow interpretation, which I (obviously) favor.

 

[FEADIN]

I admit that the spell is poorly worded, they choose the same wording than in 2nd edition IIRC.
To gather information you have to see or hear, if the target is invisible the information you have to gather is: "there's something here" the same for alternate forms, polymorphing, evil good and so on.
Can (or could) I learn something with this spell or power about the creature?