D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 player needs help into first 4e characther

[Jeffrie]

I am lost. I am not afraid to read, but feel i could read a while before getting my bearings. I am still dazed and confused with the differences, and can't even seem to choose a class or recognize my familiar options.

Since i know it's so different, i'll just try to give some fluff and preference ideas.

In 3.5 i usually multiclass, or multi prc. My favorite themes are; skillmonkey, stand alone, 5th wheel, ultimate disguise, high destiny types. Often rogue, facto, chameleon, or SAD multicasters. I don't even know if those options exist in 4e.

The group is about 9, and though some may drop, i see the potential for a more stable game. So far i've not joined. Most have never played 4e, and many never 3e and one only 2e, and a few brand new to dnd. They have all the bases covered, but might need a tank.. . which i'd rather not play.

The role i have in mind (though i may not use it) is a fellow from earth circa 1500. He knows of cannon, but could not build one to save his life. He was transported here in his early teens, and doesn't know how. He thinks he might be 'over the ocean' but is fairly certain by now he is on another plane/etc.
If this was 3.5 i would play facto, and keep looking for a way home. He would not use real magic, and i would choose his spells to play to his "non magical nature" by using negative energy as a primary theme, thereby fatiguing or dazing or neg level my primary spell themes. All the while, he doesn't really even 'control' or 'choose' or 'learn' his spells, he just has these moments where the emotional stress or need creates these 'non magical' burst that wreck the enemy (works well with the facto 3-4 spell a day limit).

So i'm lost, and it will probably take a minute to get from lost to satisfied with a build. OTOH, i don't really want to work hard at a new game, and i don't wan't to be so broken the other players don't have fun.

A little SAD and broken would be ok. The little reading i did said maybe swordsage/warlord? I don't know enough to know what or why. Any help will be appreciated, and i will probably keep the thread going till i make progress.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I am lost. I am not afraid to read, but feel i could read a while before getting my bearings. I am still dazed and confused with the differences, and can't even seem to choose a class or recognize my familiar options.

Since i know it's so different, i'll just try to give some fluff and preference ideas.

In 3.5 i usually multiclass, or multi prc. My favorite themes are; skillmonkey, stand alone, 5th wheel, ultimate disguise, high destiny types. Often rogue, facto, chameleon, or SAD multicasters. I don't even know if those options exist in 4e.

The group is about 9, and though some may drop, i see the potential for a more stable game. So far i've not joined. Most have never played 4e, and many never 3e and one only 2e, and a few brand new to dnd. They have all the bases covered, but might need a tank.. . which i'd rather not play.

The role i have in mind (though i may not use it) is a fellow from earth circa 1500. He knows of cannon, but could not build one to save his life. He was transported here in his early teens, and doesn't know how. He thinks he might be 'over the ocean' but is fairly certain by now he is on another plane/etc.
If this was 3.5 i would play facto, and keep looking for a way home. He would not use real magic, and i would choose his spells to play to his "non magical nature" by using negative energy as a primary theme, thereby fatiguing or dazing or neg level my primary spell themes. All the while, he doesn't really even 'control' or 'choose' or 'learn' his spells, he just has these moments where the emotional stress or need creates these 'non magical' burst that wreck the enemy (works well with the facto 3-4 spell a day limit).

So i'm lost, and it will probably take a minute to get from lost to satisfied with a build. OTOH, i don't really want to work hard at a new game, and i don't wan't to be so broken the other players don't have fun.

A little SAD and broken would be ok. The little reading i did said maybe swordsage/warlord? I don't know enough to know what or why. Any help will be appreciated, and i will probably keep the thread going till i make progress.

If you want to be a rogue, be a rogue. It sounds like that's what you want.

Play a half-elf. That makes multiclassing really easy. There's so many ways of multiclassing you'll be confused, so I'll keep it simple. If you're using the PH1, use the half-elf option (the one where you pick another class' at-will as an encounter power, so perhaps your rogue can sometimes dish out Magic Missile, a wizard at-will power) and take a look at the multiclassing feat too. If you're using Essentials, I think half-elves have a better multiclassing option. I would avoid hybrids and other such complicated stuff.

Ask the DM about "crafting", as there's no strict rules on that. (There are some Martial Power 2 rules there, but since you're starting, you might want to avoid non-core rules.) Perhaps you can use a cannon as an encounter or daily power (instead of your regular ones) once you've gained enough levels.

 

[KAYMANKLYNMAN]

try Pathfinder.

 

[Dice4Hire]

try Pathfinder.

And yet another person who cannot read thread titles.

 

[mcmillan]

If you're interested in combining classes you probably want to take a look at the Player's Handbook 3 which has options for hybrid classes, which is a bit closer to the way multiclassing used to work, compared to the multiclass feats in 4e, though I agree with (Psi)SeveredHead that may be a making things a bit more complicated than you really need

I thought the idea of a character that may be a bit more technological based, than typical magic might fit well with the artificer, but it may not be quite what you're going for. Also while there's not really negative energy anymore, it sounds a bit like the fluff that would go along with the nethermancy school of magic from Heros of Shadow. If you decide to focus on that I'd suggest using the Mage Wizard from the Essentials book (forgot which one) rather than the wizard from the original PHB, though those spells should be useable by either type.

The other thing to keep in mind is 4e separated mechanics from description pretty well. So if you want to have a character that does things one one way mechanically but describe it completely differently it's relatively easy to do so. From what you seem to be going for I'd think either wizard or bard sounds mechanically like it could work. Psion could be a good fit too, though the mechanics are a bit different than a non-psionic class which may not be the best to start with.

 

[On Puget Sound]

My favorite themes are; skillmonkey, Rogue, bard, rangerstand alone really no such thing in 4e, closest might be a sentinel druid with a bear pet, 5th wheel with a group of 9? I doubt anything will be lacking., ultimate disguise changeling race, high destiny types. Often rogue, facto, chameleon, or SAD multicasters. I don't even know if those options exist in 4e. Do you multiclass because none of the straight classes have exactly what you want, or because you want to be a type of character no one has seen before, or to gain every drop of mechanical advantage? Know what moves you toward multiclassing in 3e might help to figure out what will work for you in 4e (it might not involve multiclassing at all).

The group is about 9, and though some may drop, i see the potential for a more stable game. So far i've not joined. Most have never played 4e, and many never 3e and one only 2e, and a few brand new to dnd. They have all the bases covered, but might need a tank.. . which i'd rather not play.

The role i have in mind (though i may not use it) is a fellow from earth circa 1500. He knows of cannon, but could not build one to save his life. He was transported here in his early teens, and doesn't know how. He thinks he might be 'over the ocean' but is fairly certain by now he is on another plane/etc.
If this was 3.5 i would play facto, and keep looking for a way home. He would not use real magic, and i would choose his spells to play to his "non magical nature" by using negative energy as a primary theme, thereby fatiguing or dazing or neg level my primary spell themes. All the while, he doesn't really even 'control' or 'choose' or 'learn' his spells, he just has these moments where the emotional stress or need creates these 'non magical' burst that wreck the enemy (works well with the facto 3-4 spell a day limit).

So i'm lost, and it will probably take a minute to get from lost to satisfied with a build. OTOH, i don't really want to work hard at a new game, and i don't wan't to be so broken the other players don't have fun.

A little SAD and broken would be ok. The little reading i did said maybe swordsage/warlord? I don't know enough to know what or why. Any help will be appreciated, and i will probably keep the thread going till i make progress.

OK, I'll take a crack at this. We want a basically non-casting (or whose casting can be explained as something else) character with a skill or power for every situation - a bit of a Batman. I'll start with the skills. Dex, Int and Cha sound like the stats to work with; I didn't see a lot of treehugging or meditation in your write-up. These stats work well for rogues, assassins, vampires, psions, wizards, warlocks, and bards. Vampires are too un-fun to build for someone who enjoys exploring options (as in, they don't have any). We'll toss the wizards too, but leave the warlock and psion in. Because of the techno flavor, let's add artificer, an Int-Con or Int-Wis choice; I'd choose the Wis option if you go this route because a Con class gives you squat for skills.

The obvious race for someone from Earth is human, but it's not the only choice. The trip between worlds could have altered you (it worked for Kal-El); I could see choosing to mechanically be a Changeling or Half-Elf while remaining culturally human in role play.

I would look at:
any rogue build, including the essentials thief, which is in most respects simply better than the original.

cunning bard

executioner style assassin (the other kind is too mystical, I think, and the shroud mechanic is clunky and slow).

hexblade - a melee warlock. Your "pact" could actually be with an entity back on Earth that, unknown to earth humans, also manifests in this world as a fey or Infernal power. (Wolfram & Hart, medieval version? The East India Trading Company, which in this reality is Tiamat, goddess of greed?). Back on Earth, you got a paycheck for your services; here you get spells instead.

artificer - You are MacGyver. All your powers are little things you whipped up during your last rest stop out of copper sheeting, leather straps, powdered charcoal and a sliced lemon.

Try sample builds of these before digging into multiclassing; you may find you don't even need to. If you do, decide whether you want to dabble (which is "multiclassing", and you can't actually get your first cross-class power for several levels) or fully blend (which is "hybrid", and be careful. It's hard to make a truly bad character in 4e, but the hybrid rules have many ways to do so, not all of them obvious at first).

 

[KAYMANKLYNMAN]

And yet another person who cannot read thread titles.

I read, and this is my best advice . Again, play Pathfinder , in MY OPNION he and his group will have more fun.

 

[Jeffrie]

I edited out some options that didn't sound at first like they would work for me.

OK, I'll take a crack at this. We want a basically non-casting (or whose casting can be explained as something else) character with a skill or power for every situation - a bit of a Batman. I'll start with the skills. Dex, Int and Cha sound like the stats to work with. These stats work well for rogues, wizards, warlocks, and bards.
Because of the techno flavor, let's add artificer, an Int-Con or Int-Wis choice; I'd choose the Wis option if you go this route because a Con class gives you squat for skills.

The obvious race for someone from Earth is human, I would look at:
any rogue build, including the essentials thief, which is in most respects simply better than the original.

cunning bard ?
hexblade ??

artificer - You are MacGyver. !!

Try sample builds of these before digging into multiclassing; you may find you don't even need to. If you do, decide whether you want to dabble or "hybrid", and be careful. It's hard to make a truly bad character in 4e, but the hybrid rules have many ways to do so, not all of them obvious at first).

Human is fine, and unaffiliated, i think. The techno flavor need not be included in play, but the artificer sound like it might be easy to mesh. I don't understand the mechanics of the powers and such yet (yes, daily, encounter, at will), but lurk character optimization boards, and don't have to build it high now, just get the right 2-4 level stub that can do what i want.
Hybrid and dabble don't scare me, because i will run my build by the boards first. Core's not necessary, but not to complicated would be good.

++++++++++
Going with the character.
Though i usually love skill monkeys and factotums, it's because the generic party member bugs me. There's always someone doing it, and they kill monsters and meet at the inn. So skill monkey isn't needed, but driving the whole campaign with my story and role is. ! ! heh

*Character doesn't want to fight. Want's to get to earth (desire eases in later career?) and thinks adventuring could find a way. Follows clues (hey, do you know magic?) but really is just looking for the 'portal' or caster who can make one.

During fights character reacts defensively. This sometimes disrupts other magicians (dispel magic?), and makes him hard to 'scry' (do they still do divination?). Magical attacks on him may backfire, hurting the attacker.

During melee, he may use simple weapons, and avoidance. He may lurk (shadows?, skill? antimagic?), trying to rescue (steal?) the artifact he hopes will lead him in his quest for home (later his love of the knowledge he's gained in this land may convince him to continue doing the indiana jones in the 'new world'). When he sees a crisis he may try to drag the ally to safety, or set the building on fire to create diversion.

If i can get the 'antimagic' fluff to work. I don't even know if that can be done, though i can tell you a dozen ways to make that character in 3.e.

PS: If not i could just take something generic, but i hate that. If i do, i'll switch to half elf, which i almost always play. What about swordsage/rogue?

And about the Pathfinder; i would if i could. Till then i'll share company.

 

[On Puget Sound]

I read, and this is my best advice . Again, play Pathfinder , in MY OPNION he and his group will have more fun.

"My 8 friends and I are going to play croquet. I could use some advice on getting started."

"Try badminton."

If that's your best advice, advice columnist is not a career for you.

 

[KAYMANKLYNMAN]

"My 8 friends and I are going to play croquet. I could use some advice on getting started."

"Try badminton."

If that's your best advice, advice columnist is not a career for you.

Why not , if i see croquet as a wrong start why not save him.

By the way, please do not censor me.