D&D 3E/3.5 3.5e Magical Offenders - Most Overpowered Spells & Fixes

[Dandu]

1. You can't make a potion of Silence since it does not target a creature. It creates an emanation that can be centered on a creature, which is not the same thing.
2. Potions are only for spells that are 3rd level or lower. Guess what level the spell granting Spell Resistance is?

Aside from those obvious problems...
1. Invisible archers: Eh. I'm not seeing it, given that there are at least half a dozen good ways of foiling archery. Could we set up a game or match to test it out?
2: Counter casters using AMF: In short, this only works if you are a dragon. I'd explain more, but its complicated.
3: Wands of Dispel Magic have a default CL of 5. You are not going to be dispelling anyone at high levels with those.

I've heard the suggestions you've suggested and seen some of them in play. They really didn't work out well - though I suppose if you use them against players who aren't very savvy, the effectiveness will increase. If you think that you've stumbled upon some secret trick that makes it work, feel free to set up a match between a team of PCs and an OpFor DMed by a fair party and I'll take a PC slot.

 

[Elf Witch]

Someone mentioned that they thought it would stifle RP, so I brought up our experience. I prefer my players to act more prudently anyway...

I am the one who brought it up from my experience. That playing in a game that had a lot of death and no coming back made us in the end role play less because we were not immersed in our character or the world any longer.

I am not saying the because we role played less that we had more combats. We did everything we could to avoid combat.

In most of the games I play in the players get immersed in the world they form relationships with the NPCs with each other. They often have behind the scenes going on like businesses or forming guilds. After awhile with the threat of losing it all and having to start over with all of that we just stopped trying to do any of that. It started slowly and I think we started viewing the game as what we call RPG lite or what some people call beers and pretzels.

One thing I noticed was before we used character names and slowly that changed to just using the players name.

Some of us played I wouldn't say prudent but timid afraid to take any kind of risk. Others became more reckless since they had no attachment to their character they would often just do stupid things.


As I pointed out this is my experience and why I won't ever play a DnD game without some kind of raise dead ever again.

Different groups may not have this experience at all. They may find they actually enjoy the challenge of having to start over. The fear of death being permanent may make the game more exciting. YMMV

 

[Hitman187]

1. You can't make a potion of Silence since it does not target a creature. It creates an emanation that can be centered on a creature, which is not the same thing.
2. Potions are only for spells that are 3rd level or lower. Guess what level the spell granting Spell Resistance is?

Aside from those obvious problems...
1. Invisible archers: Eh. I'm not seeing it, given that there are at least half a dozen good ways of foiling archery. Could we set up a game or match to test it out?
2: Counter casters using AMF: In short, this only works if you are a dragon. I'd explain more, but its complicated.
3: Wands of Dispel Magic have a default CL of 5. You are not going to be dispelling anyone at high levels with those.

I've heard the suggestions you've suggested and seen some of them in play. They really didn't work out well - though I suppose if you use them against players who aren't very savvy, the effectiveness will increase. If you think that you've stumbled upon some secret trick that makes it work, feel free to set up a match between a team of PCs and an OpFor DMed by a fair party and I'll take a PC slot.

Silence can be centered on a creature, so if I was the DM I would allow potions of silence to work...

I never said a potion of spell resistance...

By invisible archers I meant, in lair or final room of where the hardest encounter is in an adventure (ie with the boss) their would be x archers with invisibility if not greater invisibility who would be constantly moving to elude the PC's focus and saving their standard action to send an arrow at one of the casters to add a nice DC to the concentration check

If the wand isn't strong enough make scrolls of grater dispel magic, still not high enough make the casters clerics with the inquisition domain...

And there is no great secret it is a simple fact, the rules in the books are guidelines the DM can warp any rule he wants any way he wants. If I was DM and I want my encounter to have an opponent that has a way to counter spells with 100% success rate, it will work. If a DM wants he can have the encounter near old powerful runes that create a massive AMF randomly giving every spell a chance of failure no matter when its cast, it will happen...

 

[Dandu]

So basically, you are saying "use DM fiat".

 

[Empirate]

"Rule X isn't broken or unbalanced, because you can (and should) always houserule it otherwise". What's the name of this fallacy again? I'm not trying to be condescending here, this is just a mis-argument that has cropped up so much over time it does indeed have a name!

Yes, there are potent anti-caster tactics. But from the mid levels on, ALL of these involve casting of a similar or greater power to pull off. Either in the form of counter-spellcasters, or in the form of magic items. There are NO non-magical ways of dealing with powerful magic.

Fortunately, that doesn't matter. The game is designed that way, and everybody playing D&D knows that casters are really the thing you can't do without once you reach 8th level or so. That's not a problem. It doesn't even mean casters will dominate the game. It just means you'll need some shape or form of magic going in your group, or everything will become much, much harder.

Note that NPCs can fill that slot, providing just the magics your heroic, not-very-magical PCs need, and otherwise shying the spotlight. It's not the tools that make a hero, it's the attitude.

A game doesn't need to be balanced perfectly. D&D 4 is (or at least aims to be) perfectly balanced. And you know what? It's bland. It sucks. It's just not magic if everybody and their dog can pull off a trick that's so similar you only measure the difference in damage type or whatever.

I've played in a group consisting of a Monk and two Wizards. I've played in a group consisting of a Cleric, Bard, Wizard, and Paladin. I've DMed for a group consisting of a Wizard, Cleric, and Barbarian, as well as another made up of a Druid and a Fighter.
You know what the Monk in group 1, Paladin in 2, Barbarian in 3, and Fighter in 4 had in common? They were heroes. Sure, they relied a lot on the magical tricks of their companions. But that's fine, they were friends, they were in it together, they were out to save the effin' world together, as a team. There was no need for dick-measuring, or comparing who had done the greatest percentage of work in saving the world. Leave all that behind. It doesn't do anybody any good to overthink these things. Just leaves the mundane crowd bitter about something that isn't even an issue.

My favorite game system, Hârnmaster, is so far from balanced it's already fallen over. In the beginning, casters are so weak they need help to get out of bed. After a while, they (potentially) pull ahead so much they can simply do everything. But that doesn't matter if you play a kind of game where this is simply expected.

 

[milest3hr4t]

brief comment on Knock. Knock can still be an instant unlock. you made the mistake of thinking that magical instant unlock means a rogue will be useless. This is not the case. First off, those spells per day, per door, add up pretty fast. Second, and this is the more important point... Rogues can silently pick locks, The spell knock requires the caster physically knock on the door, which with the use of magic could be quite loud or noticeable. It's the magical equivalent of just smashing the door in, you might as well ban the use of battering rams, or barbarians with the ability to run. I just thought that need to be said.

as for low magic, I'd say make it * literally* low magic, Maximum spell level is lowered, and all higher spell levels are re-funded, or even more practically, spell levels are pooled. For instance, max spell level 4. spells per day per level, multiplied by level of the spell (1st level are 1 point, 2nd level are 2, etc), pooled together, and spells cost points equal to their level... + additional cost for metamagic feats if used. sure, you get the occasional munchkin wanting to spam fireball or something until he has no 'mana', but the truly crafty casters could always beat the munchkins by simply being flexible and more reserved. Furthermore, Are there really any spells 4th level or below, that are totally insurmountable to non-casters? sure there's probably a few, but far less than 9th and below.

I actually decided to do that in a campaign, the players didn't actually object, but it didn't really mater because unbeknownst to be, two of them where planing to ruin the campaign as much as the could just to piss me off, but without making me ragequit and throw them out. Point is, I never got to find out if this actually works or not. Just figured I'd throw it out there, not that I think its a particularly unique idea. Just a relevant one.

 

[Empirate]

Second, and this is the more important point... Rogues can silently pick locks, The spell knock requires the caster physically knock on the door, which with the use of magic could be quite loud or noticeable. It's the magical equivalent of just smashing the door in, you might as well ban the use of battering rams, or barbarians with the ability to run. I just thought that need to be said.

Where do you get that from? Not from the spell description. Sounds like a literal interpretation of the spell's name to me, but that would make it a houserule.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"Rule X isn't broken or unbalanced, because you can (and should) always houserule it otherwise". What's the name of this fallacy again? I'm not trying to be condescending here, this is just a mis-argument that has cropped up so much over time it does indeed have a name!

Oberoni.

 

[Elf Witch]

I know knock is often used to point out how mages step in another classes toes. But I have never seen it.

Knock can be a life saver for a party that does not have a rogue type character. Which is why I think it is in the game.

Some of this comes down to simply player courtesy. If you have a wizard or even worse a sorcerer taking knock and using it all the time to circumvent the rogue player from doing what he is good at you have deeper troubles at your table then over powered spells.

 

[Allegro]

I'd tweak a couple additional spells:

• Detect Secret Doors
  • +5 to one search checks
  • this is replicating a 3rd level bard ability of inspire competence and steps on the rogue's shtick
• Command Undead
  • unintelligent undead get a saving throw and the duration is 10 mins / level
• Heroism
  • Limit duration to 1 min/level because it duplicates the bard class
• Charm Monster
  • change duration to 1 hour/level