3.5e -- What REALLY needed fixing?

[Voadam]

Can you clarify? What are you referring to specifically?



I like the concept behind recharge magic but isn't it just another layer of complex bookkeeping? I've never tried it myself but I'm familiar with it by reading. It looks finicky to implement.

The animals one is actually only a pet peeve, not a major problem. Natural weapons have no iteratives, cause problems integrating with the poorly written ambiguous grapple rules, use different rules when multiattacking then weapons, etc. Does a grappled bear get 3 natural attacks, natural attacks based on iteratives, etc. I should have put it in the I dislike column.

Recharge I simplified by making it flat recharge times. These can be tracked with a die easily and quickly at the table. My group that uses it simplified it a little more by eliminating bonus spells for high stats. Slot recharge management and power choices is much more suited to my play style preferences than vancian daily resource management.

 

[Devall2000]

-I think there is too much dice rolling in regard to attacks, combat takes too long

-Munchkin items: Elven court blade, elven thin blade to some degree, and others

-The feats and presige classes(Fist of Raziel, anyone) got out of hand

-Some skills are way more valuable than others: spot, listen

-Some skills can take away from role playing: diplomacy, gather information

-too much consultation of the books during the game; debating falls in here

-they shouldn't have saturated the market; I haven't bought a WotC D&D product in some time because of it. They could've reined things in.

Just my thoughts,
Jamie

 

[Derro]

The animals one is actually only a pet peeve, not a major problem. Natural weapons have no iteratives, use different rules when multiattacking then weapons, cause problems integrating with the poorly written ambiguous grapple rules, etc. I should have put it in the I dislike column.

Ok. That I get. My fix for that is to simply work off of the BAB of the animal when it comes to grappling unless the stat block says otherwise. I can understand your peeve though, it is pretty unclear. Does Multi-attack even exist as a feat anymore or is that just assumed for creatures that have 3 or more natural attacks.

Recharge I simplified by making it flat recharge times. These can be tracked with a die easily and quickly at the table. My group that uses it simplified it a little more by eliminating bonus spells for high stats.

I would love to be able to do this but I just can't trust my players to be accurate. Well, 80% of my players to be fair. As it is I'm the one that tracks most of the buff spells and short term durations simply because there have been too many instances of, "you don't get that bonus, I'm pretty sure that spell expired 3 rounds ago..." But if it works for you, great. I just don't think I could handle the book-keeping.

Slot recharge management and power choices is much more suited to my play style preferences than vancian daily resource management.

True dat. I've been leaning more and more toward innate abilities and spell-point systems. While reserve feats have addressed some of my problems I'm still very annoyed by the party coming back the next day when they've re-memorized the spells needed for the encounter. Just breaks the whole flow for me.

 

[maggot]

Never had a problem with the rules for grappling or for AoO. I did find that at high levels, grappling could make fighters obsolete without magic.

Never had a problem with wizards running out of spells except at level low levels.

Infinite summoning does not work by the rules, unless you are talking about gate which is broken anyway.

My 3.x stuff that needs to be fixed:

* Spell prep - can bring a game to a halt
* NPC prep - takes to freaking long, especially at high levels
* Some spells that don't work in game - gate, mord's dysfunction, etc.
* Some spells that don't work for a campaign - raise dead, teleport, etc.
* Scry, buff, teleport (bad enough to be pointed out individually)
* Save or die effects (basically requires that there be resurrection in the game)
* Slow combat due to numerous buffs (time to cast buffs, time to figure out effects)
* Prestige classes as better than core (no problem with stuff like eldritch knight or mystic theurge that created a new role)
* Multiclassing casters (requires prestige class to compete, and thus was a bit of a pain)
* Slow combat due to numerous roll (iterative attacks with miss chances and confirmation, spell resist and save, etc.)
* Reliance on magic items (requires ludicrous amounts of wealth for the PCs)
* Christmas tree of magic items
* DR was too annoying because it was encountered all the time.

 

[jdrakeh]

For me, the biggest issue (as a mostly DM kind of guy) was the need for quick NPC generation rules. Taking half an hour or more to roll up a PC every once in a blue moon isn't an issue. Taking half an hour or more to roll up every NPC in the setting, OTOH, is a huge (and rediculous) time sink.

[Edit: I realize that you can handwave low-level, window-dressing, NPCs -- but if they ever become engaged in combat, that elevates them to the status of at least extras. Since there aren't any rules for extras or mooks in D&D, you're stuck using the full-blown PC creation rules (alebit with a different class list) if you want to play by the RAW. This is rediculous and frustrating.]

 

[roguerouge]

The big ones:

Combats that take hours at high levels, largely due to iterative attacks
Iterative attacks a disincentive to tactical maneuvering by physical attackers
Fighters not playable except as a "dip" class
CoDzilla and Mage Supernova with way too many "save or stink/die" spells, making high-level combats about saves

The medium ones:
Grapple rules always require looking it up
Too much buff book-keeping

Easily fixed ones:
Useless or duplicating skills (listen/spot, MS/Hide, Intimidate worthless next to Diplomacy/Bluff, Use Rope)
Sorcerers w/o access to Diplomacy, GI, Intimidate, or SM, making their ability to fill the "face" role a farce
Warlocks, Warmages, and Beguilers obsoleting sorcerers

 

[Derro]

CoDzilla

Please, someone explain what this means. I've seen the term but don't know what it's referring to. Clerics and Druids or something.

Help me out here, people!

 

[cougent]

AoO's (Actual acting out or LARP can quickly show how asinine the RAW really are)
Combat taking too long at high level
As someone else said, Cleric turning, we always had to go to the PH!
NPC creation
Grappling

There are more, but those are the big 5 for me that cause about 90% of all our problems.

and for our group:
Paralyze and CDG became the standard battle tactic, which was boring as hell for me (DM) and even somewhat boring for the players, but it was just too damned easy to do to NOT do it, especially when combats started getting very long.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

CoDzilla

Its when a druid wildshapes into a strong melee form and then they buff themselves up to the point that they are stronger then a fighter, while still having spells left.

clerics do this by using Divine power and other spells and feats like persistent spells.

 

[Kesh]

That's a feature. It's one of the trade-offs for the most powerful class (not counting the munchkin crap like summoning druids).

That's only a feature in the Microsoft sense of the word. If the problem is that Wizards are too powerful, making them "burn out" and be useless during the adventure isn't a fix.