LostSoul said:
I think Hold Person should be a 4th level spell, since it is only slightly weaker than Slay Living.
I'd much rather see a system that has these "save-or-die" spells do Hit Point damage on failed saves - and if you drop below zero because of that spell, a certain effect replaces death and dying.
Such as: Hold Person does 2d6 + 1d6 per 2 levels. Will Save to negate. If you are dropped below 0 HP, you're not Dead and/or Dying, you're held Helpless.
Based on the way Hit Points works and is described, I think this is the logical way the spells should work.
No. That wouldn't be logical at all.
Hold person immobilize you, it don't deal you damage. Even if hit points are also supposed to abstract dodging and so, it isn't movement, it's capacity to soak or avoid
PHYSICAL DAMAGE.
Hold person is
NOT physical damage, it is magical immobilization.
You avoid being magically immobilized with a Will save, not a For or Reflex one.
Furthermore, if you had
hold person and other similar spells deal damage, you would nerf spellcasters even more. They have few hit points, but good will save. By making these spells damage hit points, rather than have any other effect, you penalize wizards.
You also totally ruin the flavor of the spell, since it's no longer a spell that immobilize someone, but a damage-dealing spell. A
fireball variant, in other words.
With that logic,
charm person could become a damage dealing spell also. You just have to say hit points are merely more abstract than before, and represent also your capacity at avoiding being charmed. Sigh. And then, you remove saving throws altogether, soaking with hit point cushion is all you need. And you remove combat and spellcasting alltogether, just have one class, with three stats: level, hit points, and ability. To battle someone else, you make an ability check, and that give you the number of damage you deal. When your level raise, you may increase hit points or ability. It's totally abstracted out and the system ignore whether you deal damage with a spell, a bow, a claymore, or just attempted to teleport to safety (abstracted to killing the bigbaddy in order to create safety in your zone).
If you're just allergic to spellcaster, just remove the classes, that would be less hypocritical than nerfing them constantly. What do you want ? Wizards with d1 HD every 3 levels, that could deal 1 point of damage per day and nothing else ?
I'm rambling, I know. But
hold is
not damaging, it is, plainly, holding. And although considered a save-or-die because it allow to make a CDG on the victim, it don't kill itself. It could be utilized in situation where you don't want to kill a target, like to prevent someone from doing something without harming him.
Turning
hold person into
spell that is called hold but that actually don't hold, just deal damage, although it kept its name of holding for reason of flavor, even if now it's a bland spell is not a smart move. IMHO, YMMV, and all that.