3 feats for my knight

Karmashock

First Post
I have a knight going sword and board

What are three feats I should consider?

My four objectives:
1. I need higher will saves... I already have these feats:
Iron Will
Steadfast Determination
Indomitable Soul

Got my Will Saves up to 13 as of level 10... but I also have an Item Familiar with an Ego score of 20... which means I have a 10% chance of failing my saves. So my saves are high but I'd like to get that save as high as possible.

2. My character is the tank so higher AC is something I need.
I'm considering:
Strength of a Warrior which will give me +4 to AC by allowing me to add my CON modifier to AC
Alternatively I could do Combat Expertise though not a huge fan of reducing my Attack Bonus

3. I would like to do more damage.
My character is so far very defensively focused and so has very high AC and pretty high saves. But he sort of plinks people when he hits them. More damage would be good.

4. My character is supposed to be noble born... something that amps diplomacy... ideally giving me diplomacy as a class skill would be nice. The Knight class from PHB2 has some interesting abilities that work on CHA... taunts mostly... their DC is based on my CHA score which is at this point 15... anyway.

Just looking for some general ideas for my sword and board knight.
 

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Dandu

First Post
Take Combat Expertise. Drop Iron Will and Indomitable Soul for Improved Trip and Knock Down, to capitalize on your Knight ability to make terrain you threaten treated as difficult terrain, ideally with a reach weapon. Improved Trip grants you a free attack every time you trip someone, while Knock Down lets you make a trip attempt every time you hit someone and deal 10 or more points of damage. It does appear that you can hit someone, trip them, and then hit them again. This can be further expanded on with Combat Reflexes + Robiliar's Gambit or Combat Expertise + Dodge + Karmic Strike, which grants you an AoO every time someone attacks you. Since you also get Shield Ally, you can force attacks to target you, then take AoOs against the enemy, then trip them, then hit them again.

Get Iron Will back via an Oytugh Hole. Indomitable Soul only works against Mind Affecting or Fear abilities, so it's not as generally useful as Steadfast Determination or Iron Will. Besides, you need to increase your offensive capabilities.

If you aren't wedded to the Knight class, change to Crusader from ToB. Or just take levels in Crusader after you get Bulwark of Defense at third level. I believe they get a maneuver that functions like Shield Ally, so you won't miss out on anything. Even if you don't want to take levels in Crusader, you can take the feat Martial Study for the White Raven school of maneuvers, which grants you Diplomacy as a class skill.

if you don't mind me asking, how did you get an item familiar? I thought those were for spellcasters.
 
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To build off of what [MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION] said, you can use the feat Defensive Throw to trip your opponents when they miss you. Elusive Target would work, too, but that requires you to be moving about to get the trip attempt. If you're going to be tanking, Diverting Defense and Negate Power Attack, also granted by Elusive Target, can be life savers. However, we definitely getting feat intensive now. :(

If you're going Sword and Board, Shield Slam and Shield Charge are good feats to have.

AC is good, to a point. If the orc realizes that he can't get past all the armor you're wearing, then he and his friends may decide to stab the wizard instead. Some sort of miss chance or damage reduction might work better. Really, it's up to you to know how your DM runs monsters, though.

Able Learner would let you take diplomacy regardless of class.
 

Karmashock

First Post
My character is already pretty well advanced so changing things dramatically isn't an option.

As to Knight... this is the Knight from PHB2. its not a tome knight. As I understand it, I can't benefit from this "tripping them and them stabbing them on the ground" stuff (Quote from PHB2):
The Knight’s Code: You fi ght not only to defeat your foes
but to prove your honor, demonstrate your fi ghting ability,
and win renown across the land. The stories that arise from
your deeds are just as important to you as the deeds themselves.
A good knight hopes that her example encourages
others to lead righteous lives. A neutral knight wishes to
uphold the cause of his liege (if he has one) and win glory. An
evil knight seeks to win acclaim across the land and increase
her own personal power.
The knight’s code focuses on fair play: A victory achieved
through pure skill is more diffi cult, and hence wins more
glory, than one achieved through trickery or guile.
• A knight does not gain a bonus on attack rolls when fl anking.
You still confer the benefi t of a fl anking position to
your ally, but you forgo your own +2 bonus on attack rolls.
You can choose to keep the +2 bonus, but doing so violates
your code of honor (see below).
• A knight never strikes a fl at-footed opponent. Instead, you
allow your foe to ready himself before attacking.
• A knight never deals lethal damage against a helpless foe.
You can strike such a foe, but only with attacks that deal
nonlethal damage.
If you violate any part of this code, you lose one use of
your knight’s challenge ability for the day. If your
knight’s challenge ability is not available when
you violate the code (for example, if you have
exhausted your uses for the day), you take a –2
penalty on attack rolls and saves for the rest of
that day. Your betrayal of your code of conduct
undermines the foundation of confi dence and
honor that drives you forward.
While you cleave to your view of honor,
chivalry, and pursuit of glory, you
do not force your views on others. You
might chide a rogue for sneaking around
a battlefield, but you recognize (and
perhaps even feel a bit smug about) the
reality that not everyone is fi t to follow
the knight’s path.
So, I get no flanking bonus, I either cannot strike flat footed opponents or simply can't profit from the attack bonus, and finally I can't strike helpless foes. Soooo.... Tripping them and stabbing them on the ground probably isn't possible.

As to lowering my will saves... the Sword has an ego check of DC 20. I don't f'ing trust the thing and I don't want my eyes to glow blue and be made to stab people with it.

I'm bound to the thing but I don't like having a low will save. As it is, I have a chance of success of 90%. I don't want to lower my odds and I couldn't at this point anyway.


As to future feats:
Strength of a Warrior [General],[Fighter]
Your muscle bound body while not taking damage with any less pain or suffering, does tend to try to avoid it more often, relying on your ability to take attacks head on as well as rolling with them.
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +4, Strength OR Constitution 17+
Benefit: You add either your Strength or Constitution modifier (Highest of the two) to your armor class. Your Newly added modifier doesn't take place of the armor Dex Modifier.
Special:The AC bonus gain from this feat are retained even when flat-footed. This feat can be taken twice, first time adding one of the bonuses, either Strength or Constitution, then adding the other one.

That would give my character +4 to AC. Honestly this feat just seems obvious for my character.

**Combat Expertise [General]
Prerequisite: Int 13.
Benefit: When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee, you can take a penalty of as much as –5 on your attack roll and add the same number (+5 or less) as a dodge bonus to your Armor Class. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The changes to attack rolls and Armor Class last until your next action.
Normal: A character without the Combat Expertise feat can fight defensively while using the attack or full attack action to take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and gain a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
Special: A fighter may select Combat Expertise as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Not only would this allow me to conditionally increase my AC more than Defensive Fighting, but it is also a prereq for a lot of other things.

**Weapon Focus [General, Fighter]
[PHB 102] Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for purposes of this feat. You are especially good at using this weapon. (If you have chosen ray, you are especially good with rays, such as the one produced by the ray of frost spell).
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
A fighter may select Weapon Focus as one of his fighter bonus feats. He must have Weapon Focus with a weapon to gain the Weapon Specialization feat for that weapon.

+1 to Attack is garbage but this feat is a prereq for a lot of things.

**Dodge [General, Fighter]
[PHB 91] You are adept at dodging blows.
Prerequisite: Dex 13.
Benefit: During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action. A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses.
Special: A fighter may select Dodge as one of his fighter bonus feats.

+1 to AC is garbage but the feat is a rereq for a lot of things.

Noble Born [General]
[D333/45] You are a scion of a noble house. You were raised to rule and learned the art of diplomacy as soon as you could talk.
Benefit: Diplomacy and Knowledge (nobility and royalty) are always considered class skills for you. In addition, if you gain the Leadership feat you receive a +2 to your Leadership score.
Special: This feat can only be taken at 1st level. It indicates a tie to a noble family, which might or might not still exist.

Probably this noble born thing should be taken at level 1 but the DM will let me take it later because it works with my backstory etc. In any case... the only real value to me is that Diplomacy becomes a class skill. I might get leadership later... maybe.


As to how I got the item?... we started as level 9 characters and he had us roll for some special item we would all have. I apparently rolled a number that made my sword sapient. And it is... It's a +4 longsword that gets more able to dominate me as it become stronger. As I said, it has an Ego Score of 20 right now. Which means if the DM thinks the sword wants to do something that I don't want to do... he can make me do a DC 20 or the sword forces me to do something. Long story short... I have built my character in large part to survive those ego checks. I have a 91% chance of surviving a DC20 Will save at level 10 with no cloak of resistance or anything. Not bad.

The greater purpose of the sword is to dominate everything... so... potential for the thing to go on a slaughter fest is real if I can't make an ego check.


So... assuming I can take 3 feats at a maximum... and the current feats are:

Item Familiar - Needed to bond with the weapon
Iron Will +2 to will
Endurance Prereq for Steadfast Determination
Steadfast Determination CON modifier used for Will Saves
Frightful Presence - Allows me to use my high CHA to proc a shaken effect
Indomitable soul 2d20s rolled for Will Saves (30% chance of failure to 9%)
** Alertness - Passively Granted from the Item Familiar

From the knight class:
Fighting Challenge - Lets me get +2 to a lot of rolls against one target
Test of Mettle - Lets me taunt everything around me to attack me DC17 Will
Call to Battle - Lets allies reroll Fear related effects
Mounted Combat - same as standard mounted combat
Bulwark of Defense - All areas I threaten are treated as "difficult terrain"
Heavy Armor Mastery - I ignore speed penalties from armor.
Shield Ally - I can take half the damage an ally takes adjacent to me upon myself.
Vigilant Defender - Enemies tumbling through my threatened area have the DC to avoid AoO increased by my class level.


Let me give some more stats here:
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 18
INT 13
WIS 13
CHA 13 + 2 from level 4 and level 8 stat bonuses

Saves are as follows:
Fort 3 + 4 from CON
Reflex 3 + 2 from DEX
Will is 7 + 4 from CON + 2 from iron Will

BAB is +10/+5 at level 10

I am going Sword and Board... and I literally transfixed a guy with my lance in one of the first encounters... Crited on a lance charge... Monster damage happened.

Doubtless I didn't do the most optimal thing here. This is the first character I've made in DnD in over 10 years. So I did my best trying to remember stuff I forgot ages ago. Given the current character you're seeing here... what do you think best next move is here? Again... I definitely take 1 feat here. However, we did not take the FLAW benefits which could grant me an additional 2 feats. My DM is okay with me doing it now because we're all a little overwhelmed with the rules and we started off at level 9.


As it stands... I think I'm going to do this:
Weapon Focus +1 to Attack
Weapon Specialization + 2 to Damage
Melee Weapon Mastery +2 to Attack + 2 to Damage

Total of +3 to Attack and +4 to damage. Not bad really.

That will burn up my ability to get feats as of now.

Going forward:
Strength of the Warrior for + 4 to AC
OR
Slashing Flurry for basically a doubled attack

That will depend on whether I want to be tankier or do more damage by level 12.

I get three more feats between there and level 20.

By then, my naked saves should be 10, 8, 18


The final three feats will probably be something from this list:
Combat expertise... if I need more AC
Leadership for RP reasons
Noble Born for RP reasons



Any thoughts? Doing my best with decisions already made here and circumstances that constrain my options to some extent. I cannot stress the need for high will saves enough.
 
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I wouldn't worry too much about percentages and pushing your will save higher. You are always going to fail on a one. And unless the sword is going to scale in power, that DC is going to remain a static 20. Your will save will keep rising from levels, resistance bonuses, et cetera. Continuing to invest feats in pushing your will save seems like a poor decision.

If you're truly worried about getting dominated save your money to get some sort of permanent protection from evil effect (you still need to make the save but any mind control is suppressed for the spells duration) or pick up the Mind Vault from Magic Item Compendium (as an immediate action once per day, negate any attempt to take over your mind. Kinda pricey though.). At tenth level, you should have a cloak/vest of resistance. Probably +2 by this point. Grab an armor crystal of mind cloaking for another +3 if you have magic armor. Your will save is now +18 and all you're doing is 1 checking. Magic items vary by campaign and DM so make sure those things are available before showing up with them. :)

For future feats, Leadership is strictly by DM's approval. So you'd need to run this idea by him sooner rather than later. That way if they want you to roleplay meeting your cohort or build into the story how you start acquiring followers, they can work on that now. Rather than you showing up and going "Hey I took Leadership!" and the DM going "Okay, I guess you fart out a cohort".

Combat Expertise is a nice feat and opens a lot of doors. But if you're not going to follow it up with something like Improved Trip, then I'd ignore it entirely.

The Knight Bonus Feat is list is very small. Can you ask your DM if you can add Noble Born to the bonus feat list? Are you already nobility or trying to become a lord?

Again, I'd probably go to get the most out of my shield. Shield Charge, and possibly Shield Slam, should be doable with just the remaining feats.

For the feats you have listed, which are knight bonus feats are which are regular feats? Are you human?
 

Kessalin Talira

First Post
There's a world of difference between prone from a trip and helpless. You're not subject to a coup de grace if you're prone. Knights won't attack people when they're unconscious, sleeping, or are otherwise unable to defend themselves. Nothing stops them from taking an enemy off their feet and capitalizing on it.
 

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