D&D 3E/3.5 3.X Retrospective 19 Years in Production.

[Zardnaar]

With Pathfinder 2 coming out in 2019 the 3.X family came to an end. There's probably some minor support left being released for PF1 but for the most part it's now dead in terms of new product.

It lasted 19 years the only other edition that can claim that is the old basic line (1977-94) and that's debatable.

Personally I haven't played it since 2013/14.

The oxymoron here is according to the internet it's a broken unplayable mess. That however requires some assumptions but I think the people who liked 3.X are probably not to different from any other edition.

1. They're somewhat casuals not powergamers lacking the knowledge and/or material that break the game. Or the incentive.

2. They don't play higher level that much anyway. By that level 8+ with few games over 11+.

3. Just not playing the expected internet way assumed.

So 3.X isn't my ideal choice but right DMir lack of better options I would still give it a shot. Love it or hate it 19 years of continuous support.

Thoughts?

 

[Stalker0]

All told, 3e was a major revolution to the game, bringing a wealth of new mechanics and streamlining of old ones, many of which linger to this day.

I do think the edition suffered from bloat towards its end, but ultimately any edition that sticks around long enough would likely suffer the same.

I personally think epic 6 3rd edition is probably one of my favorite forms of the game. It combines the wonderful wealth of options that 3e has to offer, but keeps at the levels where the weaknesses of 3e start to strongly manifest. A friend of mine is planning to run that in the near future, and I'll be excited to play it.

Ultimately I think 5e was two steps forward, one step back from 3e. I think it took the things 3e revolutionized and made even better, but took a few wrong turns as well. But the strength of 4e or 5e is no knock on 3e but a praise, for without 3e to pioneer so many innovations, we wouldn't enjoy them in the editions to follow.

 

[payn]

All told, 3e was a major revolution to the game, bringing a wealth of new mechanics and streamlining of old ones, many of which linger to this day.

I do think the edition suffered from bloat towards its end, but ultimately any edition that sticks around long enough would likely suffer the same.

I personally think epic 6 3rd edition is probably one of my favorite forms of the game. It combines the wonderful wealth of options that 3e has to offer, but keeps at the levels where the weaknesses of 3e start to strongly manifest. A friend of mine is planning to run that in the near future, and I'll be excited to play it.

Ultimately I think 5e was two steps forward, one step back from 3e. I think it took the things 3e revolutionized and made even better, but took a few wrong turns as well. But the strength of 4e or 5e is no knock on 3e but a praise, for without 3e to pioneer so many innovations, we wouldn't enjoy them in the editions to follow.

I like Pathfinder epic 6-8-ish. That seems to be my wheel house. 3E is my favorite E, but man I do not like playing past 10th level. Most of that is system, but some of it is taste in fantasy power level too.

 

[darjr]

I definitely did love playing it. And it was my sons red box, 3.5. And when we really needed it PF1 buoyed our gaming.

 

[Stormonu]

For it's time, I loved it - with the exception of the second round of Complete books. It certainly opened the floodgates for what was possible with the D&D system, especially with the explosive number of 3rd party product it generated (which I thought was mostly for the best as it really opened up avenues I wouldn't have considered sticking to "core"). Wouldn't play it past about 9th-12th level, but that isn't confined to 3E - I just don't like "superheroic" play, myself. Though the level of ridiculousness in high-level play for the 3E era did really come front and center in the teen levels, well before "Epic" levels kicked in.

If 5E hadn't come along, I'd probably STILL be playing a hybrid of 3.5 & PF1. Alas, 5E opened my eyes to the fact that I didn't need all the math 3E brought along, as well as the "everything must be named, statted and tattooed" minutiae 3E could get into.

 

[Alzrius]

A nineteen-year run is incredible in a hobby that's less than fifty years old. The 3.X game engine hit the sweet spot for a lot of people for a very long time (and continues to for a large number, I suspect).

What I find interesting to note is that, for all the ways that Third Edition broke from its predecessors when it came out in the year 2000, its connection to earlier editions can still be very clearly seen in the Core Rules. While the differences are most obvious, when you compare 3.0 to 3.5, and look at what changed, a lot of the alterations are to remove aspects of the game that lingered from older editions and needed subsequent tweaking to fit with the new rules.

For example, a few years ago at Gen Con, some of my gaming group overheard a snatch of conversation that they found hilarious and relayed to the rest of us later on. Specifically, they heard someone saying "that's as unbalanced as a 3.0 druid in a 3.5 campaign!" They've made that an in-group meme, and we all get a kick out of it, but when I asked them if they knew why someone would say that, none of them did.

It was because in 3.0, a druid's animal companions were the result of casting an animal friendship spell - just like in previous editions - rather than being a class feature. Specifically, casting it got you any number of animal companions, so long as their total Hit Dice didn't exceed your caster level (non-adventuring druids got twice this amount). So you could have a small army of animals along with you, which could be all kinds of hard to run. And while Use Magic Device was a class-restricted skill in 3.0 (something that could be solved with a one-level dip into, if I recall correctly, bard or rogue), the ability to put that spell into a wand or scroll meant that anyone capable of using UMD could gain at least one or two free animal companions.

That's a roundabout way of underlining that 3.X hit a sweet spot for a lot of people, in terms of still feeling like D&D while at the same time maximizing a great deal of potential utility in what it could do. It might not have been perfectly "balanced" in what it offered, but that created a great deal of mechanical freedom that was, I think, to its overall benefit. It was a great that way, and for me and my group, it's still our system of choice (via Pathfinder 1E).

 

[Richards]

I'm one of those who's still playing 3.5 - my players and I all still like the system and I personally have enough 3.5 material to run my games for the rest of my life. We're on our third 3.5 campaign now, after each of the others made it all the way from 1st level to 20th. This campaign is planned to do the same, as are all the other potential ones lined up after it.

Johnathan

 

[Zardnaar]

I like Pathfinder epic 6-8-ish. That seems to be my wheel house. 3E is my favorite E, but man I do not like playing past 10th level. Most of that is system, but some of it is taste in fantasy power level too.

I don't think playing beyond level 10 is even a 3E thing.

Seems more D&D to me.

 

[payn]

I don't think playing beyond level 10 is even a 3E thing.

Seems more D&D to me.

Oh its a thing, but not my thing in 3E.

I just ended a campaign in 5E as a player at level 17. Worked fine, but the system is boring.

 

[Flamestrike]

It's a hot broken mess that rewards system mastery, leading to a system mastery arms race.

I used to love it.