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4/26 Playtest: The Sorceror
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9019886" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>So this is a situation where the problem is poor communication from the DMG, fair enough. But the Plane Shift component is also special in that it needs a non-wealth component. Is the monetary cost actually a balancing factor or not?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Really? We aren't all a sentient hive-mid with the exact same thoughts and feelings? Well boy, isn't that egg on my tentacled face. </p><p></p><p>More seriously, maybe you should think about what that phrase means for your position as well. Just because not everyone agrees with me doesn't mean that everyone actually agrees with you. And, again, I've never seen players hyper-invested in randomly costly items they were forced to pick up. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So... step 1 be psychic and able to inform players of what the future holds. </p><p></p><p>I didn't know how far this game would get in the few months we had, and actually, I expected us to go much further than we did. So I couldn't have informed them because I would have been devastatingly wrong. But beyond that... actually yes you are telling them to pick their 9th level spell at level 5. Because if their 9th level spell has a component that takes 1 year to acquire in game, and the game is only going to last about a year in game... then by level 5 if they aren't locked into the process, then they aren't going to get it. They can't. They won't have enough time. </p><p></p><p>This is the fundamental flaw with the crafting system. It takes so long you have to start making things far above your limitations, because if you don't then by the time you are done making it, it isn't needed anymore. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>At what point during the level up process for a Paladin going from level 10 to level 11 do they get their Improved Divine Smite feature? Is it during the level up process, between sessions, or is it 5 sessions later after completing a quest to earn their feature? </p><p></p><p>This isn't about childish "hissy-fits" despite you consistently trying to infantalize the players to make your position seem stronger. This is about players, calmly and rationally, looking at the situation and going "why are you forcing me to make this seemingly arbitrary and pointless decision?" And yes, it does appear pointless, because you still haven't provided any evidence that these costly components are actually a balancing factor in any serious sense. Whether the item is just simply in the hoard they just got right before the level up, or they had to go and specifically go and kill something that had that item is not a factor in balance. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"You can" </p><p>"Might pass" </p><p>Might be measured" </p><p></p><p>That isn't guidance. Or support. It is all.... DMing style. Maybe you have a few days between adventures, maybe a few years, who can say. And no, side-quests are not constant. </p><p></p><p>Take the new DnD movie. </p><p></p><p>IS getting Simon a side-quest? Nope, it it part of the main questline. </p><p>Doric? Nope, part of the main quest. </p><p>Spying on enemy? Nope, part of the quest. </p><p>Speak with Dead? Main Questline</p><p>Paladin? Main Quest</p><p>Helmet? Main Quest. </p><p></p><p>About the only thing that could possibly be a side-quest is them stopping to talk to Olga's Ex-husband. And the point of that from the perspective of the "players" is rounding out her emotional arc, not a side-quest for any item or power. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Couple of ways they could do it in theory. By the way, did you notice how Firebolt is also better than the ranger? Evoker Wizards can do that, along with Draconic Sorcerers, and really a lot of casters get ways to add their mod to their cantrips. </p><p></p><p>Also, isn't kind of weird you want to say that 21 is "far behind" 23.5 after adding the ranger's class ability, but you completely want to ignore the fairly common addition to firebolt bringing it to 27. If 2.5 is "far behind" then what do you call a difference of 3.5? REALLY far behind?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9019886, member: 6801228"] So this is a situation where the problem is poor communication from the DMG, fair enough. But the Plane Shift component is also special in that it needs a non-wealth component. Is the monetary cost actually a balancing factor or not? Really? We aren't all a sentient hive-mid with the exact same thoughts and feelings? Well boy, isn't that egg on my tentacled face. More seriously, maybe you should think about what that phrase means for your position as well. Just because not everyone agrees with me doesn't mean that everyone actually agrees with you. And, again, I've never seen players hyper-invested in randomly costly items they were forced to pick up. So... step 1 be psychic and able to inform players of what the future holds. I didn't know how far this game would get in the few months we had, and actually, I expected us to go much further than we did. So I couldn't have informed them because I would have been devastatingly wrong. But beyond that... actually yes you are telling them to pick their 9th level spell at level 5. Because if their 9th level spell has a component that takes 1 year to acquire in game, and the game is only going to last about a year in game... then by level 5 if they aren't locked into the process, then they aren't going to get it. They can't. They won't have enough time. This is the fundamental flaw with the crafting system. It takes so long you have to start making things far above your limitations, because if you don't then by the time you are done making it, it isn't needed anymore. At what point during the level up process for a Paladin going from level 10 to level 11 do they get their Improved Divine Smite feature? Is it during the level up process, between sessions, or is it 5 sessions later after completing a quest to earn their feature? This isn't about childish "hissy-fits" despite you consistently trying to infantalize the players to make your position seem stronger. This is about players, calmly and rationally, looking at the situation and going "why are you forcing me to make this seemingly arbitrary and pointless decision?" And yes, it does appear pointless, because you still haven't provided any evidence that these costly components are actually a balancing factor in any serious sense. Whether the item is just simply in the hoard they just got right before the level up, or they had to go and specifically go and kill something that had that item is not a factor in balance. "You can" "Might pass" Might be measured" That isn't guidance. Or support. It is all.... DMing style. Maybe you have a few days between adventures, maybe a few years, who can say. And no, side-quests are not constant. Take the new DnD movie. IS getting Simon a side-quest? Nope, it it part of the main questline. Doric? Nope, part of the main quest. Spying on enemy? Nope, part of the quest. Speak with Dead? Main Questline Paladin? Main Quest Helmet? Main Quest. About the only thing that could possibly be a side-quest is them stopping to talk to Olga's Ex-husband. And the point of that from the perspective of the "players" is rounding out her emotional arc, not a side-quest for any item or power. Couple of ways they could do it in theory. By the way, did you notice how Firebolt is also better than the ranger? Evoker Wizards can do that, along with Draconic Sorcerers, and really a lot of casters get ways to add their mod to their cantrips. Also, isn't kind of weird you want to say that 21 is "far behind" 23.5 after adding the ranger's class ability, but you completely want to ignore the fairly common addition to firebolt bringing it to 27. If 2.5 is "far behind" then what do you call a difference of 3.5? REALLY far behind? [/QUOTE]
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