D&D (2024) 4/26 Playtest: The Sorceror

[Stalker0]

Often considered one of the "weaker designs" in 5e, how does this new version hold up?

I think a lot of the new Sorceror power is hidden in the details, and its easy to miss.

Probably the number 1 improvement: Metamagics can now we swapped out per long rest. That is HUGE, it means those more situational metamagics are now back on the menu. Hey do I know I'm assaulting an orc camp from long range today, bring on distant spell. Are we doing a stealth mission, subtle spell here we go. This will provide a huge improvement to the sorceror's versatility, and honestly is probably the biggest change to me.

Arcane Apotheosis: Now THAT's a capstone type ability. You can now break wish without major consequence (sure you take the ability penalty but that's peanuts compared to the real cost... the risk of losing wish), you can use wish without spending your 9th level slot. Again just awesome, wizards will definately be jealous of this one.

The New Spells
I'll note the spells below, but I will say its nice to see a number of common needs for the sorc handled by default spells. You get a bit of healing, ranged damage, area damage, and a metamagic upgrade all baked in. This lets you spend your prepared slots on other niches without losing some ability to contribute in combat, and I think that is a really nice touch.

The new sorcerous vitality is nice, the healing isn't all that great but the condition removal is solid, and its a free spell on top of your list, I'll never say no to that!

Arcane Eruption is actually really good. At 6d6 damage (practically any type you want), and you only need 1 1 on a d6 to incapaciate everyone you target, that is very very good. And even if you miss that, blinding everyone is still pretty solid. If this wasn't a con save it might even be OP, but a con save does reign it down a bit. I do think this is a very nice 4th level spell, and again you will have always have it, meaning you really don't need to spend a lot of slots for condition/damage spells at this point and can focus on other things.

Sorcery Incarnate I think is a question mark. At first glance, looks really cool. But how good is it really? Sure I can quicken and twin a spell...but I'm already costing a 5th level slot and my concentration to do that, am I really getting a lot of value? As people think through the combos we will see its real power, but I think its going to be weaker than it appears.

Sorcerous Burst: As cool as this might look, when it comes to the math the simple truth is, it turns your average from 3.5 to ~4.... so effectively weaker than a 1d8 cantrip! It gets a little spicier at higher levels as you have more chances to activate the bursts, but this is never going to be "toll the dead" levels of damage.

Dragon Subclass
Man look at that AC, I can easily sport a 17ish even 18ish AC with the right stats at higher levels, not bad at all without even needing a spell slot.

 

[TwoSix]

Sorcerers still need an Agonizing Blast equivalent, something to make a Tier 1 cantrip at least competitive with a crossbow attack.

 

[HammerMan]

Sorcerers still need an Agonizing Blast equivalent, something to make a Tier 1 cantrip at least competitive with a crossbow attack.

Yeah I think blaster cantrips (flame bolt eldritch blast ect) that don’t have an effect just damage should deal plus caster stat mod

 

[Kinematics]

Sorcerous Burst: As cool as this might look, when it comes to the math the simple truth is, it turns your average from 3.5 to ~4.... so effectively weaker than a 1d8 cantrip! It gets a little spicier at higher levels as you have more chances to activate the bursts, but this is never going to be "toll the dead" levels of damage.

This might be a little better than it looks. It does not give a limit to the number of rerolls per die, just to the total number of reroll dice, which means your typical starting 16 Cha sorcerer could theoretically get a 6+6+6+1d6 (~21.5) total at first level.

Here's some Anydice code I put together. I'm not sure it's entirely correct, because I don't know how to return multiple results and keep track of all the rerolls, but it looks reasonable.

Spoiler: Anydice code

function: addroll ROLL:s count RECURSE limit LIMIT {
  if RECURSE > LIMIT {
    result: 0
  }
  else {
    if ROLL = 6 {
      result: ROLL + [addroll 1d6 count (RECURSE+1) limit LIMIT]
    }
    else {
      result: ROLL
    }
  }
}

output [addroll 1d6 count 0 limit 3] named "1d6"
output [addroll 2d6 count 0 limit 4] named "2d6"
output [addroll 3d6 count 0 limit 5] named "3d6"
output [addroll 4d6 count 0 limit 5] named "4d6"

Level	Charisma	d6 w/rerolls	d6	d8	d10
1	16	4.20 (1 in 43: 13-17)	3.50	4.50	5.50
5	18	8.28 (1 in 43: 19-24)	7.00	9.00	11.00
11	20	12.27 (1 in 36: 23-28)	10.50	13.50	16.50
17	20	16.17 (1 in 32: 27-32)	14.00	18.00	22.00

So the average won't reach that of a d8, but there's a chance — about half the chance of a crit — of doing the max damage a set of d8's could do, or more. Note that the high damage chance range I listed was not the maximum damage, but the highest with a reasonably believable chance of happening (between a 1 in 100 and a 1 in 500 chance per final value).

So it's less tuned to the player looking for the best average, and more to the player looking for the most spectacle.

 

[Vael]

If nothing else, I like the randomness, makes the sorcerer feel like a font of magic. I've argued sorcerer spells should use fewer, larger dice so exploding dice also works.

The metamagic change is really good, despite the number done on Twin Spell, but I would like some more development here.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Over all I really love how the sorcerer is shaping up. The draconic option is a great archetpe and makes me want to play one.

Sorcerous Blast: if the additional d6 triggered on a 5-6, at 5th level then a 4-6 at 11th and finally a 3-6 at 17th the spell would have a much better average and be a lot more fun to use in my opinion.

 

[MoonSong]

Ok, some thoughts

The nice:

• More metamagic and earlier.
• Subtle spell is buffed.
• More spells known is a good thing.
• Spells known remain a thing even if they are named something else.
• Finally a not-meh capstone and a chance to recover sorcery points!
• Breath weapon is an improvement over draconic pressence.

The ambivalent

• Not a fan of mandatory blasting, but I can see it freeing spell choice, so well, ok.
• Many will bemoan the fate of twin, I'm sad I won't be able to twin cure wounds and remain efficient anymore, but thankfully we can now have a healthy discussion of the class without the pressure caused a a degenerate combo.

The sad

• Not a fan of having to fetch the features of the class in the spells section. Hopefully they can be placed inside the class description.
• Why break what isn't broken? YOu know, if you want us to have some levels as a "pure sorcerer", why not just give us the chance of a generic bland bloodline so that we can be 20 levels of pure sorcerer if we want?
• The new wings are not as cool. Permanent wings: super cool, temporary wings with meh damage, not cool.
• Not something on the sorcerer itself, but the wizard getting modify spell steps on the sorcerer's toes.

The thing nobody noticed
Finally full simple weapon proficiency!, it took wizards getting it too to get it, but it is finally back.


My veredict: not my favorite version of the sorcerer, but more of an improvement than a downgrade, and far from my worst fears. I could tolerate it... I'm still fighting back for getting back to first level subclass though.

 

[mellored]

Sorcery Incarnate I think is a question mark. At first glance, looks really cool. But how good is it really? Sure I can quicken and twin a spell...but I'm already costing a 5th level slot and my concentration to do that, am I really getting a lot of value? As people think through the combos we will see its real power, but I think its going to be weaker than it appears.

Subtle + distant would be my first choice.

Careful + extended could also work great for web, wall of fire, or other zones. Note extended now gives advantages on concentration saves.

Oddly, it seems like you can just keep rerolling Seeking Spell until you hit.

 

[Vael]

If nothing else, having this set of universal spells for the Sorcerer opens up a lot of design space in possible new subclasses, I like the idea of different subclasses adding different rider effects to these spells.

Also, while I get that there's a bit of "oh, aside from the healing spell these all just do blasting", but that means one has the freedom to build a more thematic Sorcerer. My first Sorcerer was a mix of Fire magic and Illusions, and it was hard to balance the two. Now, all those free blast spells free up the space for more illusions.

 

[MoonSong]

If nothing else, having this set of universal spells for the Sorcerer opens up a lot of design space in possible new subclasses, I like the idea of different subclasses adding different rider effects to these spells.

Also, while I get that there's a bit of "oh, aside from the healing spell these all just do blasting", but that means one has the freedom to build a more thematic Sorcerer. My first Sorcerer was a mix of Fire magic and Illusions, and it was hard to balance the two. Now, all those free blast spells free up the space for more illusions.

Yes, but I resent having to have any blasting unless I explicitly choose to blast. I find it in general just not fun, if I wanted to play a blaster, I'd play a videogame -and get bored in like ten minutes tops-.