4e Against the Giants vs Revenge of the Giants?
Cyronax
Explorer
Cool, I shouldn't have any trouble dropping it into my world, then.
Argent works best as a forgotten city anyway. It once was sort of a crossroads for politics and high-level characters 'back in the day,' but the ghostly sentry who still rules the city doesn't convene meetings anymore.
One of the things that I thought I would change about the module (if I ever ran it, instead of just pillaged from it) would be to make the adventure take place over a longer time period. As it stands the adventure reads as if the PCs are supposed to complete all the quests within about 2-6 weeks in game time.
Oh ... another notable feature of 'Revenge' is the use of TIME TRAVEL. Its a rarely used trope in D&D -- but I immediately remembered my old 2e Chronomancer book and began to see a lot of possibilities.
Oh good, I like time travel.
I'm definitely leaning towards using Revenge now, adapting it as necessary. At current rate of gaming* I may not be running it until 2012 anyway, so assuming the world doesn't end I have plenty of time to modify & adapt it.
*12 4e sessions per year, or about 4 level-ups.
Cyronax
Explorer
Oh good, I like time travel.
I'm definitely leaning towards using Revenge now, adapting it as necessary. At current rate of gaming* I may not be running it until 2012 anyway, so assuming the world doesn't end I have plenty of time to modify & adapt it.
*12 4e sessions per year, or about 4 level-ups.
Well if you like what you read (which I think you will), I suggest lowering the adventure level to 5-10th levels. Given the ease with altering monsters in the WotC Monster Builder, you could easily make many of the giants less powerful. IMC the PCs are already fighting modified frost giants at levels 5-6 (though they are very tough battles).
happy gaming.
C.I.D.
I might do that - one of the first things I did when I got Monster Builder (my 1 month DDI sub runs out in a few days) was create 1e-style stats for giants:
Hill Giant & Hill Giant Pounder - Brute 9
Stone Giant - Soldier 10
Frost Giant - Brute 11
Fire Giant - Soldier 12
I noticed that my Ogre Skirmisher minis are the same size as my Hill Giant Barbarian minis, so that seems pretty reasonable to me.
I'm not too keen on extensive conversion work if running Revenge though, avoiding that is a main reason for not using Against.
Cyronax
Explorer
What level is your current group?
I found that just doing simple 're-skinning' of ogres and low-level giants into more powerful versions did most of the job for me.
I also used Monster Builder quite extensively for de-leveling many paragon monsters into the heroic tier. PM me if you want my adventure/monster writeups (some are inspired by 'Revenge').
One homebrew monster I have been waiting to throw at my heroes is a Boneclaw Frost Giant Mage. Insane reach + cool controller powers.
C.I.D.
The two biggest things of advice I can give for Revenge are:
1) Read it in advance. The whole thing. The layout is rather random at times, and it can be difficult to find plot points.
2) Change the skill challenges. Revenge has atrocious skill challenges, the kind that really do the whole system a disservice. Throw those out, make your own.
1) Read it in advance. The whole thing. The layout is rather random at times, and it can be difficult to find plot points.
2) Change the skill challenges. Revenge has atrocious skill challenges, the kind that really do the whole system a disservice. Throw those out, make your own.
Cyronax
Explorer
ProfessorCirno,
1) Totally agree. Its a rather complex adventure, but in a good way. I put it into the category of my recent favorites -- Red hand of Doom, Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and Forge of Fury.
2) I rather liked the skill challenges actually. The skill challenges in 'Revenge' (and the DMG2) were a needed exemplar to make up for their introduction in the DMG1.
I particularly like the skill challenge (conceptually) of the Search for the Torrians.
The skill challenges also had very real effects in cases of failure.
C.I.D.
I'm not planning to run any skill challenges as-written, I find the system far too mechanistic. They tend to be written as success = fun, failure = less fun, and I find the process irksome, so I tend to have near-automatic success: roll 1 success before 3 failures sort of thing.
Currently they're 2nd-3rd level, should be 2nd-4th after Sunday's game, our 10th session. By the time they complete the current 'super adventure' - 4e conversion of Vault of Larin Karr - I'd expect them to be around 9th/10th* level. I'm thinking if I give them a big XP award on completion they may be at the verge of Paragon. Then I have an old White Dwarf 1e adventure I want to run in 4e, Necklace of Brisingamen, which concerns the conflict between Freya and Loki (with fire giants!). That could take the PCs to 11th/12th and lead into 'Revenge'.
*I could be wrong on that; VoLK is a sand-box and there's no linear route; how long it takes is very much up to the players. But the highest level foes that need to be defeated to win are around 10th level in my conversion. A smart party could conceivably complete it as early as 6th level I think.
Currently they're 2nd-3rd level, should be 2nd-4th after Sunday's game, our 10th session. By the time they complete the current 'super adventure' - 4e conversion of Vault of Larin Karr - I'd expect them to be around 9th/10th* level. I'm thinking if I give them a big XP award on completion they may be at the verge of Paragon. Then I have an old White Dwarf 1e adventure I want to run in 4e, Necklace of Brisingamen, which concerns the conflict between Freya and Loki (with fire giants!). That could take the PCs to 11th/12th and lead into 'Revenge'.
*I could be wrong on that; VoLK is a sand-box and there's no linear route; how long it takes is very much up to the players. But the highest level foes that need to be defeated to win are around 10th level in my conversion. A smart party could conceivably complete it as early as 6th level I think.
Last edited:
