D&D 4E 4E: BBEG's Redemption?

[Cyronax]

You know, until this Sunday, I had never seen anyone hit and successfully use a tanglefoot bag. But when they work, those things are gross!

Maybe I've the exception, but I have seen these items as an extremely common and anti-climatic tactic used by several gaming groups I sat down with over the years.

The one time I used this annoying item against a snooping rogue all the players said I was being unfair. Okay ... how is it unfair for a pair of elite city watch detectives to use a non-lethal method to catch a possible thief?

C.I.D.

 

[LostInTheMists]

I'm very much looking forwards to the extended survivability of villains in 4e. Also looking forward to their having neat things to do throughout combat.

I recently ran the last encounter in a game I started a while back, culminating in Geryon (deposed lord of the 5th layer of the abyss) being summoned to the material plane by various loyal servants, and the PCs taking him down.

*cough*Baator*cough*

 

[Cmarco]

I can think of three things in 3.5 games that turn a boss fight anticlimactic:

dimensional anchor
grapple
maximized ray of enfeeblement

Here's to hoping exception based rules in 4E let the villains shine a bit more.

Let's not forget how much it sucks when your players drop an antimagic field on a spellcasting villain, and proceed to just hack him to pieces... ruined the final encounter of my campaign a couple of years ago.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Not a bad idea, just wish it didn't have to come down to adding extra monsters to simply even the fight.

That's why I'm happy about the "elites". It's a good balance - I could add one "normal monster" (his right hand) and some minions (the guys that count as 1/2 a monster). Because the drawback of BBEGs with a lot of minions is: A lot of monsters to run as DM!

And why elite instead of solo makes me happy? Because brutish henchmen are a staple!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Chibbot]

*cough*Baator*cough*

Ahem.... thats what I meant. I can never remember that name. *fixes*

 

[Evilhalfling]

Ive playing in a game where we beat a bbeg this way - and a dragon no less. The DM didn't want to do the sensible thing and have it circle and breathe as we plunked away at it infectually. Instead it landed, and died before it got another action. We have 2 paladins and a handfull of power attacked smites, and the mount's turn later that was it. We had been afraid of the things for weeks and it was gone in 2 rounds? sigh.

Huh I just realized the DM's problem, he is trying to run a "static encounter" world ie If we are caught in the adult dragons territory, we fight the adult dragon. With "choosen one" characters who would destroy the plot / story if any of us died.

 

[OchreJelly]

Quickened [via metamagic rod] Maximized Empowered Enervation, followed up with Maximized Empowered Enervation.

I see you think like my players! They tend to have all bases covered. Weaker caster-type minions? black tentacles and so forth. It's stange how touch AC always comes up in what I consider "weenie tactics" (note: I only deem it weenie after much repeated use).

It's really the economy of actions that keeps 3X villians locked down to 1-2 round battles. The 4E dragons make me hopeful because they can do many things when it's not their turn.

 

[OchreJelly]

Let's not forget how much it sucks when your players drop an antimagic field on a spellcasting villain, and proceed to just hack him to pieces... ruined the final encounter of my campaign a couple of years ago.

You to?? True gamer story: My character was a cleric of Wee Jas. He cast anti-magic (I believe it was domain) in the final campaign battle with the main villian. Needless to say the visual of a cleric and a lich rolling around in the dirt was silly (at least it was memorable).

 

[Sphyre]

It took me 7 years to get to the point in 3.x (well 3.5 really) where I could have a successful BBEG encounter.

The party was 13th level, the BBEG was a CR 17 Ulitharid with a few levels of psion to boost up his powers and he had six level 5 minions (level 5 Bo9S NPCs). The battle was the most climactic battle I'd ever run. In the beginning, the cleric/paladin went up against the Ulitharid, while the Ninja, Wizard, and Favored Soul stayed in back taking care of the minions. Until the cleric/paladin got grappled, in which the wizard used a spell that let him transpose positions with an ally, and having freedom of movement on so he couldn't be grappled.

The BBEG was tough, in the last few rounds, it came down to the BBEG dropping 2 of the 4 characters into negatives, when the cleric/paladin scored a hit with his abberation-bane weapon killing the BBEG the turn right before he would have been dropped. Very close, very climactic, and very fulfilling to have the battle go pretty much exactly how I wanted it to.

I certainly hope that it's easier to create solo encounters like that in 4e without being 4 levels ahead and minions to wade through.

 

[Green Knight]

I'm very much looking forward to creating NPC's using the whole grab bag approach that 4E seems to be favoring. It's a new approach that I'm still trying to wrap my head around. For instance, I'm going to be converting Ravenloft NPC's to 4E once 4E's out. I've been here trying to figure out if Strahd, for instance, should be a Warlord or a Wizard, how much multiclassing he should have, etc, when I can just give Strahd whatever I think is appropriate. No need to figure out class levels or anything of the sort. If he's got Warlord abilities then he's got them. If he's got Wizard abilities then he's got them. Yep, I'm definitely looking forward to 4E.